Date   

Re: Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

derek riemer
 

Robbert, I'm happy to add you as an owner for this list, or if I can't we could add Joseph. I always tried to keep the announce list lower volume, but if you have better ideas on how to handle it, let me know.
Cheers

On Thu, Dec 24, 2020 at 6:02 PM Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@...> wrote:
Dear NVDACon observers, members and supporters

I wish you the very best for the holidays and the year 2021.
Thanks for all your contribution to the conference and all the feedback to it.
I don't take the incidents that occurred during the NVDACon neither
lightly nor serious, they were the expression of passion.
And passion is always good no matter how we might perceive it at first glance.
I might be biased but the presentations were really great (and didn't
reach as many people as they actually deserved).
I have so many plans for 2021 that my brain is on the edge to explode.
I hope that many of you will support me on this endeavour.
We will truly and honestly go to new frontiers and migrating to a new
platform is the least of it.

If you're serious about helping out or if you just want to give us
your personal NVDACon history, please fill out this survey:
https://forms.gle/qTrAUAM9cGustkgf9
(anonymous if you want to stay passive)
Please take care of you and your beloved ones.
Best wishes to you all
Robert







--
Derek Riemer
Improving the world one byte at a time!        ⠠⠊⠍⠏⠗⠕⠧⠬ ⠮ ⠸⠺ ⠐⠕ ⠃⠽⠞⠑ ⠁⠞ ⠁ ⠐⠞⠖
•    Accessibility enthusiast.
•    Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
•    Open source enthusiast.
•    Skier.

•    Personal website: https://derekriemer.com





Re: Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Nimer Jaber
 

I am happy to help in any way I can, please let me know. I also look forward to the collaboration.

Thanks.

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020 at 7:46 AM Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@...> wrote:
On 29/12/2020, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
> I'm aware of that and I intend to be more involved
>
I see, that's fine.
Maybe we can get you even further than the "Advisor" role that you've
checked... 👍
I am happy to have you on board and look forward to a fruitful collaboration.
Cheers
Robert

> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, 06:43 Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@...> wrote:
>
>> On 29/12/2020, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
>> > So I attempted to subscribe, and I responded to the message for
>> > approving
>> > my membership, but I never received any confirmation as to whether or
>> not I
>> > was subscribed or any sort of a welcome message. So hopefully my
>> > subscription was received.
>> >
>> Of course, I don't check back every few minutes ;-) but
>> yes, I've received it, thanks.
>> I hope you're aware that this means active involvement, not just
>> peeking in, right?
>> Meetings will still be announced on this list so that you or other
>> interested parties can visit.
>> Cheers
>> Robert
>>
>> > On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, 05:02 Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@...>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 29/12/2020, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
>> >> > Oh, is there a new mailing list? Interesting.
>> >> >
>> >> Yes, just for internal use. There are some issues with the current two
>> >> lists related to NVDACon:
>> >> - the announcement list has been neglected (one message per year is
>> >> underwhelming)
>> >> - it will be replaced by a more personal one with custom-tailored news
>> >> etc.
>> >> - the planning list and its messages are all public apart from the
>> >> fact that there are members in it who are obviously not active any
>> >> more.
>> >> - NVDACon.org doesn't own these lists and can't moderate or anything
>> with
>> >> it.
>> >>
>> >> The new list is at:
>> >> https://groups.io/g/nvdacon-team
>> >>
>> >> However, it seems to me that former features of groups.io do slowly
>> >> disappear in the free version.
>> >> That's a pity.
>> >>
>> >> Cheers
>> >> Robert
>> >> > On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 5:08 PM lauracornwell
>> >> > <lauracornwell1@...>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Hey there, sorry it took me a little time to respond but thanks for
>> >> >> all
>> >> >> you have done for this year's con. And also, at the end of this
>> >> >> form
>> >> >> did
>> >> >> you put a link to hour new mailing list? Please let know thanks.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> From: intl@NVDACon.groups.io <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> On Behalf Of
>> >> Robert
>> >> >> Hänggi
>> >> >> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 7:03 PM
>> >> >> To: intl@nvdacon.groups.io
>> >> >> Subject: [NVDACon] Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Dear NVDACon observers, members, and supporters
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I wish you the very best for the holidays and the year 2021.
>> >> >> Thanks for all your contribution to the conference and all the
>> >> >> feedback
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> it.
>> >> >> I don't take the incidents that occurred during the NVDACon neither
>> >> >> lightly nor serious, they were the expression of passion.
>> >> >> And passion is always good no matter how we might perceive it.
>> >> >> I might be biased but the presentations were really great (and
>> >> >> didn't
>> >> >> reach as many people as they actually deserved).
>> >> >> I have so many plans for 2021 that my brain is on the edge to
>> explode.
>> >> >> I hope that many of you will support me on this endeavor.
>> >> >> We will truly and honestly go to new frontiers and migrating to a
>> >> >> new
>> >> >> platform is the least of it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If you're serious about helping out or if you just want to give us
>> >> >> your personal NVDACon history, please fill out this survey:
>> >> >> https://forms.gle/qTrAUAM9cGustkgf9
>> >> >> (anonymous if you want to stay passive)
>> >> >> Please take care of you and your beloved ones.
>> >> >> Best wishes to you all
>> >> >> Robert
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> > --
>> >> > Best,
>> >> >
>> >> > Nimer Jaber
>> >> >
>> >> > The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> >> > addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> >> > please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> >> > correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
>> >> > contents
>> >> > by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil
>> >> > or
>> >> > criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> >> > attachments for security threats.
>> >> >
>> >> > Registered Linux User 529141.
>> >> > http://counter.li.org/
>> >> >
>> >> > To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader
>> >> > for
>> >> > Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>
>> >> >
>> >> > You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
>> >> > news.
>> >> >
>> >> > To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
>> >> > (970)
>> >> > (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>> >> >
>> >> > Thank you, and have a great day!
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>







--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Robert Hänggi
 

On 29/12/2020, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm aware of that and I intend to be more involved
I see, that's fine.
Maybe we can get you even further than the "Advisor" role that you've
checked... 👍
I am happy to have you on board and look forward to a fruitful collaboration.
Cheers
Robert

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, 06:43 Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@gmail.com> wrote:

On 29/12/2020, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@gmail.com> wrote:
So I attempted to subscribe, and I responded to the message for
approving
my membership, but I never received any confirmation as to whether or
not I
was subscribed or any sort of a welcome message. So hopefully my
subscription was received.
Of course, I don't check back every few minutes ;-) but
yes, I've received it, thanks.
I hope you're aware that this means active involvement, not just
peeking in, right?
Meetings will still be announced on this list so that you or other
interested parties can visit.
Cheers
Robert

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, 05:02 Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@gmail.com>
wrote:

On 29/12/2020, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, is there a new mailing list? Interesting.
Yes, just for internal use. There are some issues with the current two
lists related to NVDACon:
- the announcement list has been neglected (one message per year is
underwhelming)
- it will be replaced by a more personal one with custom-tailored news
etc.
- the planning list and its messages are all public apart from the
fact that there are members in it who are obviously not active any
more.
- NVDACon.org doesn't own these lists and can't moderate or anything
with
it.

The new list is at:
https://groups.io/g/nvdacon-team

However, it seems to me that former features of groups.io do slowly
disappear in the free version.
That's a pity.

Cheers
Robert
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 5:08 PM lauracornwell
<lauracornwell1@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hey there, sorry it took me a little time to respond but thanks for
all
you have done for this year's con. And also, at the end of this
form
did
you put a link to hour new mailing list? Please let know thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: intl@NVDACon.groups.io <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Robert
Hänggi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 7:03 PM
To: intl@nvdacon.groups.io
Subject: [NVDACon] Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Dear NVDACon observers, members, and supporters

I wish you the very best for the holidays and the year 2021.
Thanks for all your contribution to the conference and all the
feedback
to
it.
I don't take the incidents that occurred during the NVDACon neither
lightly nor serious, they were the expression of passion.
And passion is always good no matter how we might perceive it.
I might be biased but the presentations were really great (and
didn't
reach as many people as they actually deserved).
I have so many plans for 2021 that my brain is on the edge to
explode.
I hope that many of you will support me on this endeavor.
We will truly and honestly go to new frontiers and migrating to a
new
platform is the least of it.

If you're serious about helping out or if you just want to give us
your personal NVDACon history, please fill out this survey:
https://forms.gle/qTrAUAM9cGustkgf9
(anonymous if you want to stay passive)
Please take care of you and your beloved ones.
Best wishes to you all
Robert











--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its
contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil
or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader
for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology
news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at
(970)
(393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!






















Re: Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Nimer Jaber
 

I'm aware of that and I intend to be more involved


On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, 06:43 Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@...> wrote:
On 29/12/2020, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
> So I attempted to subscribe, and I responded to the message for approving
> my membership, but I never received any confirmation as to whether or not I
> was subscribed or any sort of a welcome message. So hopefully my
> subscription was received.
>
Of course, I don't check back every few minutes ;-) but
yes, I've received it, thanks.
I hope you're aware that this means active involvement, not just
peeking in, right?
Meetings will still be announced on this list so that you or other
interested parties can visit.
Cheers
Robert

> On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, 05:02 Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@...> wrote:
>
>> On 29/12/2020, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
>> > Oh, is there a new mailing list? Interesting.
>> >
>> Yes, just for internal use. There are some issues with the current two
>> lists related to NVDACon:
>> - the announcement list has been neglected (one message per year is
>> underwhelming)
>> - it will be replaced by a more personal one with custom-tailored news
>> etc.
>> - the planning list and its messages are all public apart from the
>> fact that there are members in it who are obviously not active any
>> more.
>> - NVDACon.org doesn't own these lists and can't moderate or anything with
>> it.
>>
>> The new list is at:
>> https://groups.io/g/nvdacon-team
>>
>> However, it seems to me that former features of groups.io do slowly
>> disappear in the free version.
>> That's a pity.
>>
>> Cheers
>> Robert
>> > On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 5:08 PM lauracornwell
>> > <lauracornwell1@...>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> Hey there, sorry it took me a little time to respond but thanks for
>> >> all
>> >> you have done for this year's con. And also, at the end of this form
>> >> did
>> >> you put a link to hour new mailing list? Please let know thanks.
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: intl@NVDACon.groups.io <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> On Behalf Of
>> Robert
>> >> Hänggi
>> >> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 7:03 PM
>> >> To: intl@nvdacon.groups.io
>> >> Subject: [NVDACon] Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)
>> >>
>> >> Dear NVDACon observers, members, and supporters
>> >>
>> >> I wish you the very best for the holidays and the year 2021.
>> >> Thanks for all your contribution to the conference and all the
>> >> feedback
>> >> to
>> >> it.
>> >> I don't take the incidents that occurred during the NVDACon neither
>> >> lightly nor serious, they were the expression of passion.
>> >> And passion is always good no matter how we might perceive it.
>> >> I might be biased but the presentations were really great (and didn't
>> >> reach as many people as they actually deserved).
>> >> I have so many plans for 2021 that my brain is on the edge to explode.
>> >> I hope that many of you will support me on this endeavor.
>> >> We will truly and honestly go to new frontiers and migrating to a new
>> >> platform is the least of it.
>> >>
>> >> If you're serious about helping out or if you just want to give us
>> >> your personal NVDACon history, please fill out this survey:
>> >> https://forms.gle/qTrAUAM9cGustkgf9
>> >> (anonymous if you want to stay passive)
>> >> Please take care of you and your beloved ones.
>> >> Best wishes to you all
>> >> Robert
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > --
>> > Best,
>> >
>> > Nimer Jaber
>> >
>> > The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
>> > addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
>> > please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
>> > correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
>> > by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
>> > criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
>> > attachments for security threats.
>> >
>> > Registered Linux User 529141.
>> > http://counter.li.org/
>> >
>> > To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
>> > Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>
>> >
>> > You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>> >
>> > To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
>> > (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>> >
>> > Thank you, and have a great day!
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>






Re: Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Robert Hänggi
 

On 29/12/2020, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@gmail.com> wrote:
So I attempted to subscribe, and I responded to the message for approving
my membership, but I never received any confirmation as to whether or not I
was subscribed or any sort of a welcome message. So hopefully my
subscription was received.
Of course, I don't check back every few minutes ;-) but
yes, I've received it, thanks.
I hope you're aware that this means active involvement, not just
peeking in, right?
Meetings will still be announced on this list so that you or other
interested parties can visit.
Cheers
Robert

On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, 05:02 Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@gmail.com> wrote:

On 29/12/2020, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, is there a new mailing list? Interesting.
Yes, just for internal use. There are some issues with the current two
lists related to NVDACon:
- the announcement list has been neglected (one message per year is
underwhelming)
- it will be replaced by a more personal one with custom-tailored news
etc.
- the planning list and its messages are all public apart from the
fact that there are members in it who are obviously not active any
more.
- NVDACon.org doesn't own these lists and can't moderate or anything with
it.

The new list is at:
https://groups.io/g/nvdacon-team

However, it seems to me that former features of groups.io do slowly
disappear in the free version.
That's a pity.

Cheers
Robert
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 5:08 PM lauracornwell
<lauracornwell1@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hey there, sorry it took me a little time to respond but thanks for
all
you have done for this year's con. And also, at the end of this form
did
you put a link to hour new mailing list? Please let know thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: intl@NVDACon.groups.io <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> On Behalf Of
Robert
Hänggi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 7:03 PM
To: intl@nvdacon.groups.io
Subject: [NVDACon] Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Dear NVDACon observers, members, and supporters

I wish you the very best for the holidays and the year 2021.
Thanks for all your contribution to the conference and all the
feedback
to
it.
I don't take the incidents that occurred during the NVDACon neither
lightly nor serious, they were the expression of passion.
And passion is always good no matter how we might perceive it.
I might be biased but the presentations were really great (and didn't
reach as many people as they actually deserved).
I have so many plans for 2021 that my brain is on the edge to explode.
I hope that many of you will support me on this endeavor.
We will truly and honestly go to new frontiers and migrating to a new
platform is the least of it.

If you're serious about helping out or if you just want to give us
your personal NVDACon history, please fill out this survey:
https://forms.gle/qTrAUAM9cGustkgf9
(anonymous if you want to stay passive)
Please take care of you and your beloved ones.
Best wishes to you all
Robert











--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
(393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!














Re: Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Nimer Jaber
 

So I attempted to subscribe, and I responded to the message for approving my membership, but I never received any confirmation as to whether or not I was subscribed or any sort of a welcome message. So hopefully my subscription was received.


On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, 05:02 Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@...> wrote:
On 29/12/2020, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
> Oh, is there a new mailing list? Interesting.
>
Yes, just for internal use. There are some issues with the current two
lists related to NVDACon:
- the announcement list has been neglected (one message per year is
underwhelming)
- it will be replaced by a more personal one with custom-tailored news etc.
- the planning list and its messages are all public apart from the
fact that there are members in it who are obviously not active any
more.
- NVDACon.org doesn't own these lists and can't moderate or anything with it.

The new list is at:
https://groups.io/g/nvdacon-team

However, it seems to me that former features of groups.io do slowly
disappear in the free version.
That's a pity.

Cheers
Robert
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 5:08 PM lauracornwell <lauracornwell1@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hey there, sorry it took me a little time to respond but thanks for all
>> you have done for this year's con. And also, at the end of this form did
>> you put a link to hour new mailing list? Please let know thanks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: intl@NVDACon.groups.io <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert
>> Hänggi
>> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 7:03 PM
>> To: intl@nvdacon.groups.io
>> Subject: [NVDACon] Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)
>>
>> Dear NVDACon observers, members, and supporters
>>
>> I wish you the very best for the holidays and the year 2021.
>> Thanks for all your contribution to the conference and all the feedback
>> to
>> it.
>> I don't take the incidents that occurred during the NVDACon neither
>> lightly nor serious, they were the expression of passion.
>> And passion is always good no matter how we might perceive it.
>> I might be biased but the presentations were really great (and didn't
>> reach as many people as they actually deserved).
>> I have so many plans for 2021 that my brain is on the edge to explode.
>> I hope that many of you will support me on this endeavor.
>> We will truly and honestly go to new frontiers and migrating to a new
>> platform is the least of it.
>>
>> If you're serious about helping out or if you just want to give us
>> your personal NVDACon history, please fill out this survey:
>> https://forms.gle/qTrAUAM9cGustkgf9
>> (anonymous if you want to stay passive)
>> Please take care of you and your beloved ones.
>> Best wishes to you all
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Best,
>
> Nimer Jaber
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
> criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
>
> To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
> Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
> (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
> Thank you, and have a great day!
>
>
>
>
>
>






Re: Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Nimer Jaber
 

I thought Joseph was moderating this list? In any case, I subscribed in order to get involved.


On Tue, Dec 29, 2020, 05:02 Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@...> wrote:
On 29/12/2020, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> wrote:
> Oh, is there a new mailing list? Interesting.
>
Yes, just for internal use. There are some issues with the current two
lists related to NVDACon:
- the announcement list has been neglected (one message per year is
underwhelming)
- it will be replaced by a more personal one with custom-tailored news etc.
- the planning list and its messages are all public apart from the
fact that there are members in it who are obviously not active any
more.
- NVDACon.org doesn't own these lists and can't moderate or anything with it.

The new list is at:
https://groups.io/g/nvdacon-team

However, it seems to me that former features of groups.io do slowly
disappear in the free version.
That's a pity.

Cheers
Robert
> On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 5:08 PM lauracornwell <lauracornwell1@...>
> wrote:
>
>> Hey there, sorry it took me a little time to respond but thanks for all
>> you have done for this year's con. And also, at the end of this form did
>> you put a link to hour new mailing list? Please let know thanks.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: intl@NVDACon.groups.io <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert
>> Hänggi
>> Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 7:03 PM
>> To: intl@nvdacon.groups.io
>> Subject: [NVDACon] Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)
>>
>> Dear NVDACon observers, members, and supporters
>>
>> I wish you the very best for the holidays and the year 2021.
>> Thanks for all your contribution to the conference and all the feedback
>> to
>> it.
>> I don't take the incidents that occurred during the NVDACon neither
>> lightly nor serious, they were the expression of passion.
>> And passion is always good no matter how we might perceive it.
>> I might be biased but the presentations were really great (and didn't
>> reach as many people as they actually deserved).
>> I have so many plans for 2021 that my brain is on the edge to explode.
>> I hope that many of you will support me on this endeavor.
>> We will truly and honestly go to new frontiers and migrating to a new
>> platform is the least of it.
>>
>> If you're serious about helping out or if you just want to give us
>> your personal NVDACon history, please fill out this survey:
>> https://forms.gle/qTrAUAM9cGustkgf9
>> (anonymous if you want to stay passive)
>> Please take care of you and your beloved ones.
>> Best wishes to you all
>> Robert
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Best,
>
> Nimer Jaber
>
> The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
> addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
> please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
> correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
> by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
> criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
> attachments for security threats.
>
> Registered Linux User 529141.
> http://counter.li.org/
>
> To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
> Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>
>
> You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.
>
> To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
> (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.
>
> Thank you, and have a great day!
>
>
>
>
>
>






Re: Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Robert Hänggi
 

On 29/12/2020, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@gmail.com> wrote:
Oh, is there a new mailing list? Interesting.
Yes, just for internal use. There are some issues with the current two
lists related to NVDACon:
- the announcement list has been neglected (one message per year is
underwhelming)
- it will be replaced by a more personal one with custom-tailored news etc.
- the planning list and its messages are all public apart from the
fact that there are members in it who are obviously not active any
more.
- NVDACon.org doesn't own these lists and can't moderate or anything with it.

The new list is at:
https://groups.io/g/nvdacon-team

However, it seems to me that former features of groups.io do slowly
disappear in the free version.
That's a pity.

Cheers
Robert
On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 5:08 PM lauracornwell <lauracornwell1@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hey there, sorry it took me a little time to respond but thanks for all
you have done for this year's con. And also, at the end of this form did
you put a link to hour new mailing list? Please let know thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: intl@NVDACon.groups.io <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert
Hänggi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 7:03 PM
To: intl@nvdacon.groups.io
Subject: [NVDACon] Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Dear NVDACon observers, members, and supporters

I wish you the very best for the holidays and the year 2021.
Thanks for all your contribution to the conference and all the feedback
to
it.
I don't take the incidents that occurred during the NVDACon neither
lightly nor serious, they were the expression of passion.
And passion is always good no matter how we might perceive it.
I might be biased but the presentations were really great (and didn't
reach as many people as they actually deserved).
I have so many plans for 2021 that my brain is on the edge to explode.
I hope that many of you will support me on this endeavor.
We will truly and honestly go to new frontiers and migrating to a new
platform is the least of it.

If you're serious about helping out or if you just want to give us
your personal NVDACon history, please fill out this survey:
https://forms.gle/qTrAUAM9cGustkgf9
(anonymous if you want to stay passive)
Please take care of you and your beloved ones.
Best wishes to you all
Robert











--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
(393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!






Re: Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Nimer Jaber
 

Oh, is there a new mailing list? Interesting.


On Mon, Dec 28, 2020 at 5:08 PM lauracornwell <lauracornwell1@...> wrote:
Hey there, sorry it took me a little time to respond but thanks for all you have done for this year's con. And also, at the end of this form did you put a link to hour new mailing list? Please let know thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: intl@NVDACon.groups.io <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Hänggi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 7:03 PM
To: intl@nvdacon.groups.io
Subject: [NVDACon] Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Dear NVDACon observers, members, and supporters

I wish you the very best for the holidays and the year 2021.
Thanks for all your contribution to the conference and all the feedback to it.
I don't take the incidents that occurred during the NVDACon neither
lightly nor serious, they were the expression of passion.
And passion is always good no matter how we might perceive it.
I might be biased but the presentations were really great (and didn't
reach as many people as they actually deserved).
I have so many plans for 2021 that my brain is on the edge to explode.
I hope that many of you will support me on this endeavor.
We will truly and honestly go to new frontiers and migrating to a new
platform is the least of it.

If you're serious about helping out or if you just want to give us
your personal NVDACon history, please fill out this survey:
https://forms.gle/qTrAUAM9cGustkgf9
(anonymous if you want to stay passive)
Please take care of you and your beloved ones.
Best wishes to you all
Robert













--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

lauracornwell
 

Hey there, sorry it took me a little time to respond but thanks for all you have done for this year's con. And also, at the end of this form did you put a link to hour new mailing list? Please let know thanks.

-----Original Message-----
From: intl@NVDACon.groups.io <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> On Behalf Of Robert Hänggi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2020 7:03 PM
To: intl@nvdacon.groups.io
Subject: [NVDACon] Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Dear NVDACon observers, members, and supporters

I wish you the very best for the holidays and the year 2021.
Thanks for all your contribution to the conference and all the feedback to it.
I don't take the incidents that occurred during the NVDACon neither
lightly nor serious, they were the expression of passion.
And passion is always good no matter how we might perceive it.
I might be biased but the presentations were really great (and didn't
reach as many people as they actually deserved).
I have so many plans for 2021 that my brain is on the edge to explode.
I hope that many of you will support me on this endeavor.
We will truly and honestly go to new frontiers and migrating to a new
platform is the least of it.

If you're serious about helping out or if you just want to give us
your personal NVDACon history, please fill out this survey:
https://forms.gle/qTrAUAM9cGustkgf9
(anonymous if you want to stay passive)
Please take care of you and your beloved ones.
Best wishes to you all
Robert


Re: Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Robert Hänggi
 

Thanks Iván
I'm not sure if it is now disabled, there is not much in the settings
to choose from.
Thanks for filling it out.
Cheers
Robert

On 25/12/2020, Iván Novegil via groups.io
<ivan.novegil=nvda.es@groups.io> wrote:
Hey! I think you should disable the ability for us to see others'
responses...


Happy holidays.

Iván Novegil Cancelas
Editor
ivan.novegil@nvda.es <mailto:ivan.novegil@nvda.es>
Experto certificado en NVDA <https://certification.nvaccess.org>

NVDA.es Logo
Comunidad hispanohablante de NVDA | Proyecto NVDA.es
- www.NVDA.es <https://nvda.es>
- @nvda_es <https://twitter.com/nvda_es>

Usuario do NVDA en galego

***Esta mensaxe e/ou os seus adxuntos están dirixidos ao seu
destinatario e poden conter información privilexiada ou confidencial. A
utilización, copia ou divulgación dos mesmos por parte de alguén
diferente do destinatario mencionado non están permitidas sen
autorización. Se recibiu esta mensaxe por erro pregámoslle o comunique
por esta mesma vía e a destrúa.***

O 25/12/2020 á(s) 2:02, Robert Hänggi escribiu:
Dear NVDACon observers, members and supporters

I wish you the very best for the holidays and the year 2021.
Thanks for all your contribution to the conference and all the feedback to
it.
I don't take the incidents that occurred during the NVDACon neither
lightly nor serious, they were the expression of passion.
And passion is always good no matter how we might perceive it at first
glance.
I might be biased but the presentations were really great (and didn't
reach as many people as they actually deserved).
I have so many plans for 2021 that my brain is on the edge to explode.
I hope that many of you will support me on this endeavour.
We will truly and honestly go to new frontiers and migrating to a new
platform is the least of it.

If you're serious about helping out or if you just want to give us
your personal NVDACon history, please fill out this survey:
https://forms.gle/qTrAUAM9cGustkgf9
(anonymous if you want to stay passive)
Please take care of you and your beloved ones.
Best wishes to you all
Robert









Re: Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Iván Novegil
 

Hey! I think you should disable the ability for us to see others' responses...


Happy holidays.

Iván Novegil Cancelas
Editor
ivan.novegil@...


NVDA.es Logo
Comunidad hispanohablante de NVDA | Proyecto NVDA.es
- www.NVDA.es
- @nvda_es

Usuario do NVDA en galego

***Esta mensaxe e/ou os seus adxuntos están dirixidos ao seu destinatario e poden conter información privilexiada ou confidencial. A utilización, copia ou divulgación dos mesmos por parte de alguén diferente do destinatario mencionado non están permitidas sen autorización. Se recibiu esta mensaxe por erro pregámoslle o comunique por esta mesma vía e a destrúa.***

O 25/12/2020 á(s) 2:02, Robert Hänggi escribiu:

Dear NVDACon observers, members and supporters

I wish you the very best for the holidays and the year 2021.
Thanks for all your contribution to the conference and all the feedback to it.
I don't take the incidents that occurred during the NVDACon neither
lightly nor serious, they were the expression of passion.
And passion is always good no matter how we might perceive it at first glance.
I might be biased but the presentations were really great (and didn't
reach as many people as they actually deserved).
I have so many plans for 2021 that my brain is on the edge to explode.
I hope that many of you will support me on this endeavour.
We will truly and honestly go to new frontiers and migrating to a new
platform is the least of it.

If you're serious about helping out or if you just want to give us
your personal NVDACon history, please fill out this survey:
https://forms.gle/qTrAUAM9cGustkgf9
(anonymous if you want to stay passive)
Please take care of you and your beloved ones.
Best wishes to you all
Robert






Happy Xmas (or Notmas as it is called nowadays)

Robert Hänggi
 

Dear NVDACon observers, members and supporters

I wish you the very best for the holidays and the year 2021.
Thanks for all your contribution to the conference and all the feedback to it.
I don't take the incidents that occurred during the NVDACon neither
lightly nor serious, they were the expression of passion.
And passion is always good no matter how we might perceive it at first glance.
I might be biased but the presentations were really great (and didn't
reach as many people as they actually deserved).
I have so many plans for 2021 that my brain is on the edge to explode.
I hope that many of you will support me on this endeavour.
We will truly and honestly go to new frontiers and migrating to a new
platform is the least of it.

If you're serious about helping out or if you just want to give us
your personal NVDACon history, please fill out this survey:
https://forms.gle/qTrAUAM9cGustkgf9
(anonymous if you want to stay passive)
Please take care of you and your beloved ones.
Best wishes to you all
Robert


this weekends meeting.

lauracornwell
 

Hey there, to all this is just a friendly reminder that we will be having a
meeting on Sunday starting at 2100 UTC wich is at 3Cst 4est. I hope to see
you all there.


Re: NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis: success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed

James Teh <jteh@...>
 

Keep in mind that Zoom is often per-seat licensing. So, you can't just borrow an account, since company users obviously can't just give up their passwords for security reasons, so that would require additional users to be added, thus increasing the cost for the company. Each host/moderator has to have a paid account.

Jamie


On Mon, Dec 14, 2020 at 1:58 PM derek riemer <driemer.riemer@...> wrote:
We have a plethora of blindness organizations we could ask to help out with the conference by borrowing their zoom conference that they use for other programs. If we approach them with empathy, compassion, and willingness to help support their programs financially, maybe we can work something out and avoid having to fund the whole thing ourselves.
Cheers,
Derek

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 2:01 PM Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:

<grin>

Unfortunately while I am employed its not full time.

However when the next nvda con comes about, I guess there is no issues asking my bosses and see what they see.

The company is for accessibility, there is a good chance they will accept the conference yearly if necessary, not sure about rate but they are an accessibility company.

Of course it would be good if at that point whoever organised it asked me for it or went themselves.




On 10/12/2020 3:44 am, Iván Novegil via groups.io wrote:
I also know people that defends TeamTalk.
As you are employed and very independent, you can start collecting the money to fund Zoom or propose an alternative platform with similar features to TeamTalk. Then you would have to organize de conference, of course, earing people who says that NVDACon 2021 is a bad organized conference because they prefer TeamTalk.
Alternatively, you could develop a statistic on people who has problems with TeamTalk or a web streaming and what that problems are, so you can expose it instead of the thoughts of indeterminate users, who maybe not facing any problems with TeamTalk but they are so lazy as to get it, or who maybe dont exist.
Be reasonable. A thing is understanding your point, which for me is completely valid, and another agreeing with this type of rude comments.
Additionally, I dont think the openning forum is the right place to be heard regarding this. All of those who took part in platform debate could, for example, enjoy the conference and expose concerns through places such as this list.

Regards.

Iván Novegil Cancelas
Editor
ivan.novegil@...


NVDA.es Logo
Comunidad hispanohablante de NVDA | Proyecto NVDA.es
www.NVDA.es
@nvda_es


Usuario do NVDA en galego

***Esta mensaxe e/ou os seus adxuntos están dirixidos ao seu destinatario e poden conter información privilexiada ou confidencial. A utilización, copia ou divulgación dos mesmos por parte de alguén diferente do destinatario mencionado non están permitidas sen autorización. Se recibiu esta mensaxe por erro pregámoslle o comunique por esta mesma vía e a destrúa.***


El 9 dic 2020, a las 15:29, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> escribió:


Hello Robert,

And I leave you with my thoughts:

I did not create this thread, simply responded to it.

We are in agreement that my actions were not good.

I have heard from quite a number of users stating that they agree that the platform is a poor choice, and they wish for a change in platform.

If this list, the one where organizers reside, is a poor place to discuss this topic, then where in the world is a better one?

This is my last subject on this as it is abundantly clear that the organizers have decided to, instead of being responsive to the community at large, and instead of being representative of this community, instead of looking to actually be the global community conference of NVDA, it seems that, from the top down, NVDA Con is being known as a blindy event, using a piece of software that frankly only unemployed blind homebodies use, and instead of taking feedback on board, not just mine, but that of the community, this group has decided to bury its collective thumb up its butt and ignore the fact that a real problem exists, the identity of NVDA con. With the exception of, seemingly Joseph, who has seen the need for a platform change, others on this group seem to continue to make excuses for why it would be too hard to change, and why we need to remain entrenched where we stand.

With that, I will go back to my sideline role until next year, when I will try to, again, be heard, and have the community be heard. Good luck with your continuance of using an antiquated platform, and good luck advertising for, and attracting 30 users, plus another 20-30 who were there the entire time and were part of NVDA con planning. Good luck calling it an international conference representative of the community. As my donation is meaningless and not welcome, I will take it somewhere else, or maybe just use it to do something good for myself.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 5:27 AM Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@...> wrote:
I won't further participate in the discussion in this thread as it
seems not to be the right place nor order of procedure and the thread
name itself is either poor choice or some morbid joke that I don't
understand.
I find it personally rather silly to act up like in kindergarten only
to hit a point home. Despite the fact that offering to pay for the
first conference on the Zoom platform is doubtless very generous,
there is no way that we could probably accept that.
It would look like a lobbyist got his will through some sort of indirect bribe.
Not only that, it seems that users and moderators aim for multiple
gatherings in a smaller frame during the year and thus we wouldn't be
able to live on a single month donation.
It is an entirely different thing if we can guarantee a more or less
steady funding through a multitude of users.
We will certainly strive for that goal but it needs some setup first
(we have currently neither budget nor any bank or paypal account).
I beg you to be patient and to wait until the taskforce21 (evaluation
of platform possibilities and requirements) has done its work.

I leave you with a quote that seems to me exactly fitting the situation:
"We are in a time that is increasingly fractured. ...
if you look at the world right now. If you look at the news.
If you look at the news coverage. If you look at any controversy that we see:
Something has changed
and that is that it has become increasingly popular for your feelings
to matter, more than the facts.
And I think that is toxic to democracy because if there is one thing
we have to have:
to be able to have this discussion, to be able to learn, to live with
people that we disagree with.
We can't have a conversation about what we should do
We can't have a conversation about where we're going,
if we can't agree on where we are,
if we can't agree on what is happening.
Facts have to matter more than feelings."
Edward Snowden
(at around 10:30 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9yK1QndJSM )

Cheers
Robert


On 09/12/2020, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> One extra could be put in in this reguard.
>
> I do not use it because 1 I don't like the interface and 2, I just have
> enough channels I am on, but if people really want to do this, dischord
> is used by both blind and sighted.
>
> I guess whatsapp and facebook messenger for those that care could be
> other options.
>
> A discord server is free enough.
>
> I'd be against a total fan event, at least for the forums and chats.
>
> Now there isn't anything in the rules saying that we couldn't put
> lightning talks, keynotes, and development discussions to something like
> zoom if thats what people want.
>
> I have been on webinars that are like this.
>
> Now though, who are we serving here?
>
> With exception with the developments and where blindness and
> accessibility meet mainstream technologies and we do try to get into
> those where we can, a lot of this is a disabled event.
>
> And its quite short in any case.
>
> But if the community want to go with it go here and email them, and
> mention my name.
>
> https://accessadvisors.nz/
>
> This is the link to the company I work for as a tester of various things.
>
> They have been my main source of income this year and have assimilated
> most of the local companies, and charity access teams I have been.
>
> As a collective they are ok.
>
> These guys could previde some stuff, though there would be cash involved
> with various things so I do think that the con keep doing recordings for
> distribution.
>
> Then again, I am unsure on how zoom handles not for proffit organisations.
>
> Idealy though, you would want to allow various forums either to
> broadcast simultainiously or at least have options.
>
> If zoom is used there is options of phoning in.
>
> The other thing is, how big do we want this to go.
>
> The main event is the international con.
>
> I don't usually appear due to timezones and the like at any of these and
> there is no actual local event for me but thats fine.
>
> Now if you guys want to get big, then maybe I can have a crack at
> helping but I've never set my own event like this so it would be with
> someone else.
>
>
> You do realise though that if we go bigger then the team will need to be
> bigger.
>
> And if thats done, not everyone will be able to meet at the propper time
> so a lot of extras will have to be done by email which could be a
> problem depending what and where, etc.
>
> I don't spend all day in front of a workstation especially in the summer.
>
>
>
> On 9/12/2020 12:42 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Shaun brought up an important point: who is this event for? The answer
>> to this will have stunning implications for next year’s organizers:
>>
>>   * This is strictly an NVDA community event: there was a suggestion
>>     to create a regular meeting/workshop/gathering between NVDA users
>>     that goes beyond mailing lists. For that, we don’t need the scale
>>     of NVDACon (to be honest with you all).
>>   * This is a blindness specific event: well, there are other events
>>     like this where the NVDA community can come together to discuss
>>     the product.
>>   * NVDACon should target outsiders, including sighted individuals:
>>     this will necessitate moving TOWARD more prominent platforms.
>>
>> I think some of the reasons for getting ourselves into a corner like
>> this is due to old assumptions regarding the NVDACon, its character,
>> and scale. Earlier iterations of this event were successful when
>> considering that the event was limited to the NVDA community. This
>> changed in 2016 and 2017 when the gathering became larger and more
>> prominent, evidenced by more mentions in blindness presses and
>> presentation line-up. When considering the pandemic, this year was a
>> success, made more prominent as people tuned into events via a live
>> stream.
>>
>> The fact that we even had a live stream and willingness by people in
>> places such as Spain to translate the keynote for their language
>> communities means we have crossed a bridge of no return. Prior to
>> this, it was word of mouth that influenced NVDACon’s reputation. Of
>> course folks tuning in via TeamTalk had slightly better experiences as
>> they had live access to presenters and the conference in general. But
>> now the conference was streamed live and keynote was translated into
>> Spanish a few hours after the main event, and you can see why we
>> cannot go back to NvDACon of yesteryear. In short, folks will need to
>> think carefully about the target audience and the communities they are
>> serving and wish to reach out to.
>>
>> I’m sure some of us do not want NVDACon to become another fan meeting.
>> If NVDACon did become a fan meeting, held using a platform that the
>> community thinks is acceptable and accessible only by the community
>> and fans, then NVDACon will not be able to escape the corner it has
>> found itself in: a niche event. If next year’s organizers decide that
>> NVDACon should become more global and mainstream in terms of audience
>> outreach and creative content, then folks need to make strategic
>> decisions early and move the event in a direction that restores its
>> reputation as a source of useful information and filled with timely
>> analyses and critiques of NVDA and its community. Choosing a platform
>> is just one of the things to be decided based on an overall vision and
>> strategy; others include content that does contribute meaningful
>> information, willingness to listen to critics, and professional event
>> execution. NVDACon is not a fan meeting; it’s a professional gathering
>> of the community that must now consider its impact on outside audiences.
>>
>> Some important suggestions and recommendations forthcoming.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> *From:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>> *Shaun Everiss
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 8, 2020 2:57 PM
>> *To:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis: success,
>> moving to a different platform, Twitter feed
>>
>> I agree, also who are we pandering to.
>>
>> I know people stream in obs but to be honest, unless a sightling hosts
>> it, who will be able to do that sort of thing.
>>
>> I guess we could stream the conference on youtube and have pictures of
>> those speaking or something, but really this aint for a sighted audiance.
>>
>> Now, saying that, we are backed by google and others so if someone
>> wants to contribute that would be fine.
>>
>> Personally, while I can use zoom and yes its good for a job, as a
>> platform I woouldn't probably bother with it, I mean it works but
>> teamtalk is widely used by the blind and its still being developed.
>>
>> The other way we could do this is skype.
>>
>> Another thing we could try is microsoft teams but I have no idea if we
>> can use teams as personal users or if we need a business adress to
>> handle this.
>>
>> I don't think teams is for personal users but I could be wrong.
>>
>> We could use skype as another alternit but I don't think moderation is
>> a thing that can happen in skype.
>>
>> I guess we could use hangouts or its equivilant on the new google
>> platform since just about everyone has edge or chrome or something
>> like it.
>>
>> Thing is, is this for the blind or the sighted here.
>>
>> The blind will not want or need videos.
>>
>> If we are going to have pictures on a stream, that would work for the
>> talks, the keynote maybe and a few other things.
>>
>> However the forums, probably not so much.
>>
>> I guess we could have a zoom room for the lightning talks/webinars and
>> keynote and the teamtalk for general but its a bit bitsy.
>>
>> I have no idea what services would work on miranda, with the death of
>> aim, yahoo im, msn im, and the like as well as twitter pritty much,
>> the only mainstream stuff we have are zoom or teams.
>>
>> For the blind, we have ventrilo, teamtalk and teamspeak.
>>
>> Of course we could always have a chat app developed with the teamtalk
>> apis and that could work.
>>
>> We could always have a stereo room with the right codecs but who knows.
>>
>> We will always have issues.
>>
>> On 9/12/2020 9:57 am, Adriani Botez wrote:
>>
>>     I understand all complaints and arguments for and also against
>>     Team Talk. However, I am still struggling with users who think
>>     that moderating in Zoom is easier than in Team Talk. For an user
>>     it is easy to join, that’s true. But don’t forget that we are
>>     doing all this stuff voluntarily and I hope the community does not
>>     expect from us to become as professional as paid webinars or
>>     something else. If the expectation goes in that direction, I am
>>     sorry but at least speaking for myself I will not be available to
>>     moderate a 3 days conference in classroom mode at a high
>>     professional level and including all time zones of the world. This
>>     is simply too much for a voluntar work like we do.
>>
>>     If we will decide to go to Zoom, open forum format will still be
>>     available and this means that people will still be able to talk
>>     without raising hands, especially in long breaks. We simply do not
>>     have enough moderators to run a three days conference completely
>>     in classroom mode. So if the community does not respect simple
>>     rules like waiting for silence, don’t fall in each other’s words,
>>     being respectful etc. then we need to push harder from a
>>     moderator’s perspective and kick people from the conference much
>>     faster than we did in the past. Maybe we were too negligent on this.
>>
>>     To be honnest, I prefer to have a conference with less
>>     participants but qualitative input and useful content rather than
>>     one with a lot of participants and messy audio and lots of people
>>     who don’t respect simple rules. But this risk exists both in Team
>>     Talk and Zoom or any other platform when we are in an open format
>>     where every one can speak.
>>
>>     I think fund raising is not a problem, we have to think
>>     strategically in which direction we want to go.
>>
>>     Best
>>
>>     Adriani
>>
>>     *Von:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
>>     <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io> *Im
>>     Auftrag von *Shaun Everiss
>>     *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 8. Dezember 2020 21:38
>>     *An:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
>>     *Betreff:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis:
>>     success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed
>>
>>     Well joseph the only real alternitive is zoom.
>>
>>     Zoom will work but someone has to pay if you want to run with more
>>     than 3 people for 40 minutes.
>>
>>     So someone will have to pay to run zoom.
>>
>>     Teamtalk is fine for audio and its free.
>>
>>     Now I guess if we could get funding to hire a zoom room for the
>>     conference that would be different.
>>
>>     But someone would need to pay for and subscribe to zoom.
>>
>>     I could see nvaccess doing this, the problem,the only time a
>>     meeting is handled is for the conference.
>>
>>     The only other way would to join another group's zoom account, but
>>     that would mean someone else hosting it.
>>
>>     Looking on zoom, while I have not looked at the rooms prices, a
>>     meeting starts at 200 us and up and a webinar starts at 400 bucks
>>     a year for 100 people and up to 1000 for 500 people.
>>
>>     No one knows how many will attend a conference.
>>
>>     Teamtalk aparently can do video but yeah, who knows.
>>
>>     Unless there is a drive to donait for a subscription to zoom, then
>>     I don't know.
>>
>>     Bottem line, how many blind people will care to donate cash for a
>>     yearly event 1 time.
>>
>>     Sure if I had the 1000 bucks for 500 people, I'd pay that per
>>     year, but I don't have that.
>>
>>     There are other options for developers and educators and not sure
>>     about the rest, I guess zoom could be approached by those handling
>>     conferences and asked for the event its only really 1 or so
>>     weekends sometimes a couple weeks a year.
>>
>>     On 9/12/2020 8:13 am, Joseph Lee wrote:
>>
>>         Hi,
>>
>>         Personally, I beg to differ: as much as TeamTalk was a useful
>>         platform, it is time to move away from a corner that we have
>>         dug ourselves into. NVDACon held during a pandemic has
>>         demonstrated a need to reach out to more audiences, and
>>         personally, I think TeamTalk is no longer a suitable platform
>>         for that. Accessibility and usability are major factors, but
>>         if the community wants to broaden the appeal of NVDACon, it
>>         should use a platform that allows more audience participation.
>>
>>         The era of “audio only” conference is coming to a close.
>>         Because the mainstream language is visual appeal, NVDACon
>>         should strive to achieve a balance between mainstream appeal
>>         and accessibility. More people will consume news about NVDA
>>         through online media, and it is time for NVDACon to respond to
>>         it more effectively, especially now that the pandemic has
>>         changed how people consume information (online presence will
>>         be more pervasive, and so will efforts to create content that
>>         appeals not only to a specific community, but also to wider
>>         audiences). Put in another way: if NVDA is a global movement,
>>         an event that serves as a gathering of this movement should
>>         strive to reach global audiences, and one way is learning from
>>         mainstream strategies.
>>
>>         Cheers,
>>
>>         Joseph
>>
>>         *From:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
>>         <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io> *On
>>         Behalf Of *lauracornwell
>>         *Sent:* Tuesday, December 8, 2020 11:00 AM
>>         *To:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
>>         *Subject:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis:
>>         success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed
>>
>>         Thanks to all for all help this year. Now as for moving to
>>         zoomed I think that cost would be a big part of things we
>>         could reach more people maybe but  not having a plan for
>>         weekend use is not helpful this is why I think that staying
>>         with team talk would be better .
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>







--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Derek Riemer
Improving the world one byte at a time!        ⠠⠊⠍⠏⠗⠕⠧⠬ ⠮ ⠸⠺ ⠐⠕ ⠃⠽⠞⠑ ⠁⠞ ⠁ ⠐⠞⠖
•    Accessibility enthusiast.
•    Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
•    Open source enthusiast.
•    Skier.

•    Personal website: https://derekriemer.com





Re: NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis: success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed

 

but 1 thing funding ourselves will do is give us more indipendence.
may be nvaccess can help

On 12/14/20, derek riemer <driemer.riemer@gmail.com> wrote:
We have a plethora of blindness organizations we could ask to help out with
the conference by borrowing their zoom conference that they use for other
programs. If we approach them with empathy, compassion, and willingness to
help support their programs financially, maybe we can work something out
and avoid having to fund the whole thing ourselves.
Cheers,
Derek

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 2:01 PM Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:

<grin>

Unfortunately while I am employed its not full time.

However when the next nvda con comes about, I guess there is no issues
asking my bosses and see what they see.

The company is for accessibility, there is a good chance they will accept
the conference yearly if necessary, not sure about rate but they are an
accessibility company.

Of course it would be good if at that point whoever organised it asked me
for it or went themselves.




On 10/12/2020 3:44 am, Iván Novegil via groups.io wrote:

I also know people that defends TeamTalk.
As you are employed and very independent, you can start collecting the
money to fund Zoom or propose an alternative platform with similar
features
to TeamTalk. Then you would have to organize de conference, of course,
earing people who says that NVDACon 2021 is a bad organized conference
because they prefer TeamTalk.
Alternatively, you could develop a statistic on people who has problems
with TeamTalk or a web streaming and what that problems are, so you can
expose it instead of the thoughts of indeterminate users, who maybe not
facing any problems with TeamTalk but they are so lazy as to get it, or
who
maybe dont exist.
Be reasonable. A thing is understanding your point, which for me is
completely valid, and another agreeing with this type of rude comments.
Additionally, I dont think the openning forum is the right place to be
heard regarding this. All of those who took part in platform debate
could,
for example, enjoy the conference and expose concerns through places such
as this list.

Regards.

Iván Novegil Cancelas
Editor
ivan.novegil@nvda.es
[image: Experto certificado en NVDA]
<https://certification.nvaccess.org/>

[image: NVDA.es Logo]
Comunidad hispanohablante de NVDA | Proyecto NVDA.es <http://nvda.es/>
- www.NVDA.es <https://www.nvda.es/>
- @nvda_es <https://twitter.com/nvda_es>

Usuario do NVDA en galego

***Esta mensaxe e/ou os seus adxuntos están dirixidos ao seu destinatario
e poden conter información privilexiada ou confidencial. A utilización,
copia ou divulgación dos mesmos por parte de alguén diferente do
destinatario mencionado non están permitidas sen autorización. Se recibiu
esta mensaxe por erro pregámoslle o comunique por esta mesma vía e a
destrúa.***


El 9 dic 2020, a las 15:29, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@gmail.com>
<nimerjaber1@gmail.com> escribió:


Hello Robert,

And I leave you with my thoughts:

I did not create this thread, simply responded to it.

We are in agreement that my actions were not good.

I have heard from quite a number of users stating that they agree that
the
platform is a poor choice, and they wish for a change in platform.

If this list, the one where organizers reside, is a poor place to discuss
this topic, then where in the world is a better one?

This is my last subject on this as it is abundantly clear that the
organizers have decided to, instead of being responsive to the community
at
large, and instead of being representative of this community, instead of
looking to actually be the global community conference of NVDA, it seems
that, from the top down, NVDA Con is being known as a blindy event, using
a
piece of software that frankly only unemployed blind homebodies use, and
instead of taking feedback on board, not just mine, but that of the
community, this group has decided to bury its collective thumb up its
butt
and ignore the fact that a real problem exists, the identity of NVDA con.
With the exception of, seemingly Joseph, who has seen the need for a
platform change, others on this group seem to continue to make excuses
for
why it would be too hard to change, and why we need to remain
entrenched where we stand.

With that, I will go back to my sideline role until next year, when I
will
try to, again, be heard, and have the community be heard. Good luck with
your continuance of using an antiquated platform, and good luck
advertising
for, and attracting 30 users, plus another 20-30 who were there the
entire
time and were part of NVDA con planning. Good luck calling it an
international conference representative of the community. As my donation
is
meaningless and not welcome, I will take it somewhere else, or maybe just
use it to do something good for myself.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 5:27 AM Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@gmail.com>
wrote:

I won't further participate in the discussion in this thread as it
seems not to be the right place nor order of procedure and the thread
name itself is either poor choice or some morbid joke that I don't
understand.
I find it personally rather silly to act up like in kindergarten only
to hit a point home. Despite the fact that offering to pay for the
first conference on the Zoom platform is doubtless very generous,
there is no way that we could probably accept that.
It would look like a lobbyist got his will through some sort of indirect
bribe.
Not only that, it seems that users and moderators aim for multiple
gatherings in a smaller frame during the year and thus we wouldn't be
able to live on a single month donation.
It is an entirely different thing if we can guarantee a more or less
steady funding through a multitude of users.
We will certainly strive for that goal but it needs some setup first
(we have currently neither budget nor any bank or paypal account).
I beg you to be patient and to wait until the taskforce21 (evaluation
of platform possibilities and requirements) has done its work.

I leave you with a quote that seems to me exactly fitting the situation:
"We are in a time that is increasingly fractured. ...
if you look at the world right now. If you look at the news.
If you look at the news coverage. If you look at any controversy that we
see:
Something has changed
and that is that it has become increasingly popular for your feelings
to matter, more than the facts.
And I think that is toxic to democracy because if there is one thing
we have to have:
to be able to have this discussion, to be able to learn, to live with
people that we disagree with.
We can't have a conversation about what we should do
We can't have a conversation about where we're going,
if we can't agree on where we are,
if we can't agree on what is happening.
Facts have to matter more than feelings."
Edward Snowden
(at around 10:30 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9yK1QndJSM )

Cheers
Robert


On 09/12/2020, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@gmail.com> wrote:
One extra could be put in in this reguard.

I do not use it because 1 I don't like the interface and 2, I just
have
enough channels I am on, but if people really want to do this,
dischord
is used by both blind and sighted.

I guess whatsapp and facebook messenger for those that care could be
other options.

A discord server is free enough.

I'd be against a total fan event, at least for the forums and chats.

Now there isn't anything in the rules saying that we couldn't put
lightning talks, keynotes, and development discussions to something
like
zoom if thats what people want.

I have been on webinars that are like this.

Now though, who are we serving here?

With exception with the developments and where blindness and
accessibility meet mainstream technologies and we do try to get into
those where we can, a lot of this is a disabled event.

And its quite short in any case.

But if the community want to go with it go here and email them, and
mention my name.

https://accessadvisors.nz/

This is the link to the company I work for as a tester of various
things.

They have been my main source of income this year and have assimilated
most of the local companies, and charity access teams I have been.

As a collective they are ok.

These guys could previde some stuff, though there would be cash
involved
with various things so I do think that the con keep doing recordings
for
distribution.

Then again, I am unsure on how zoom handles not for proffit
organisations.

Idealy though, you would want to allow various forums either to
broadcast simultainiously or at least have options.

If zoom is used there is options of phoning in.

The other thing is, how big do we want this to go.

The main event is the international con.

I don't usually appear due to timezones and the like at any of these
and
there is no actual local event for me but thats fine.

Now if you guys want to get big, then maybe I can have a crack at
helping but I've never set my own event like this so it would be with
someone else.


You do realise though that if we go bigger then the team will need to
be
bigger.

And if thats done, not everyone will be able to meet at the propper
time
so a lot of extras will have to be done by email which could be a
problem depending what and where, etc.

I don't spend all day in front of a workstation especially in the
summer.



On 9/12/2020 12:42 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi all,

Shaun brought up an important point: who is this event for? The
answer
to this will have stunning implications for next year’s organizers:

* This is strictly an NVDA community event: there was a suggestion
to create a regular meeting/workshop/gathering between NVDA users
that goes beyond mailing lists. For that, we don’t need the scale
of NVDACon (to be honest with you all).
* This is a blindness specific event: well, there are other events
like this where the NVDA community can come together to discuss
the product.
* NVDACon should target outsiders, including sighted individuals:
this will necessitate moving TOWARD more prominent platforms.

I think some of the reasons for getting ourselves into a corner like
this is due to old assumptions regarding the NVDACon, its character,
and scale. Earlier iterations of this event were successful when
considering that the event was limited to the NVDA community. This
changed in 2016 and 2017 when the gathering became larger and more
prominent, evidenced by more mentions in blindness presses and
presentation line-up. When considering the pandemic, this year was a
success, made more prominent as people tuned into events via a live
stream.

The fact that we even had a live stream and willingness by people in
places such as Spain to translate the keynote for their language
communities means we have crossed a bridge of no return. Prior to
this, it was word of mouth that influenced NVDACon’s reputation. Of
course folks tuning in via TeamTalk had slightly better experiences
as
they had live access to presenters and the conference in general. But
now the conference was streamed live and keynote was translated into
Spanish a few hours after the main event, and you can see why we
cannot go back to NvDACon of yesteryear. In short, folks will need to
think carefully about the target audience and the communities they
are
serving and wish to reach out to.

I’m sure some of us do not want NVDACon to become another fan
meeting.
If NVDACon did become a fan meeting, held using a platform that the
community thinks is acceptable and accessible only by the community
and fans, then NVDACon will not be able to escape the corner it has
found itself in: a niche event. If next year’s organizers decide that
NVDACon should become more global and mainstream in terms of audience
outreach and creative content, then folks need to make strategic
decisions early and move the event in a direction that restores its
reputation as a source of useful information and filled with timely
analyses and critiques of NVDA and its community. Choosing a platform
is just one of the things to be decided based on an overall vision
and
strategy; others include content that does contribute meaningful
information, willingness to listen to critics, and professional event
execution. NVDACon is not a fan meeting; it’s a professional
gathering
of the community that must now consider its impact on outside
audiences.

Some important suggestions and recommendations forthcoming.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
*Shaun Everiss
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 8, 2020 2:57 PM
*To:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis: success,
moving to a different platform, Twitter feed

I agree, also who are we pandering to.

I know people stream in obs but to be honest, unless a sightling
hosts
it, who will be able to do that sort of thing.

I guess we could stream the conference on youtube and have pictures
of
those speaking or something, but really this aint for a sighted
audiance.

Now, saying that, we are backed by google and others so if someone
wants to contribute that would be fine.

Personally, while I can use zoom and yes its good for a job, as a
platform I woouldn't probably bother with it, I mean it works but
teamtalk is widely used by the blind and its still being developed.

The other way we could do this is skype.

Another thing we could try is microsoft teams but I have no idea if
we
can use teams as personal users or if we need a business adress to
handle this.

I don't think teams is for personal users but I could be wrong.

We could use skype as another alternit but I don't think moderation
is
a thing that can happen in skype.

I guess we could use hangouts or its equivilant on the new google
platform since just about everyone has edge or chrome or something
like it.

Thing is, is this for the blind or the sighted here.

The blind will not want or need videos.

If we are going to have pictures on a stream, that would work for the
talks, the keynote maybe and a few other things.

However the forums, probably not so much.

I guess we could have a zoom room for the lightning talks/webinars
and
keynote and the teamtalk for general but its a bit bitsy.

I have no idea what services would work on miranda, with the death of
aim, yahoo im, msn im, and the like as well as twitter pritty much,
the only mainstream stuff we have are zoom or teams.

For the blind, we have ventrilo, teamtalk and teamspeak.

Of course we could always have a chat app developed with the teamtalk
apis and that could work.

We could always have a stereo room with the right codecs but who
knows.

We will always have issues.

On 9/12/2020 9:57 am, Adriani Botez wrote:

I understand all complaints and arguments for and also against
Team Talk. However, I am still struggling with users who think
that moderating in Zoom is easier than in Team Talk. For an user
it is easy to join, that’s true. But don’t forget that we are
doing all this stuff voluntarily and I hope the community does
not
expect from us to become as professional as paid webinars or
something else. If the expectation goes in that direction, I am
sorry but at least speaking for myself I will not be available to
moderate a 3 days conference in classroom mode at a high
professional level and including all time zones of the world.
This
is simply too much for a voluntar work like we do.

If we will decide to go to Zoom, open forum format will still be
available and this means that people will still be able to talk
without raising hands, especially in long breaks. We simply do
not
have enough moderators to run a three days conference completely
in classroom mode. So if the community does not respect simple
rules like waiting for silence, don’t fall in each other’s words,
being respectful etc. then we need to push harder from a
moderator’s perspective and kick people from the conference much
faster than we did in the past. Maybe we were too negligent on
this.

To be honnest, I prefer to have a conference with less
participants but qualitative input and useful content rather than
one with a lot of participants and messy audio and lots of people
who don’t respect simple rules. But this risk exists both in Team
Talk and Zoom or any other platform when we are in an open format
where every one can speak.

I think fund raising is not a problem, we have to think
strategically in which direction we want to go.

Best

Adriani

*Von:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
<intl@NVDACon.groups.io> <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io> *Im
Auftrag von *Shaun Everiss
*Gesendet:* Dienstag, 8. Dezember 2020 21:38
*An:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
*Betreff:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis:
success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed

Well joseph the only real alternitive is zoom.

Zoom will work but someone has to pay if you want to run with
more
than 3 people for 40 minutes.

So someone will have to pay to run zoom.

Teamtalk is fine for audio and its free.

Now I guess if we could get funding to hire a zoom room for the
conference that would be different.

But someone would need to pay for and subscribe to zoom.

I could see nvaccess doing this, the problem,the only time a
meeting is handled is for the conference.

The only other way would to join another group's zoom account,
but
that would mean someone else hosting it.

Looking on zoom, while I have not looked at the rooms prices, a
meeting starts at 200 us and up and a webinar starts at 400 bucks
a year for 100 people and up to 1000 for 500 people.

No one knows how many will attend a conference.

Teamtalk aparently can do video but yeah, who knows.

Unless there is a drive to donait for a subscription to zoom,
then
I don't know.

Bottem line, how many blind people will care to donate cash for a
yearly event 1 time.

Sure if I had the 1000 bucks for 500 people, I'd pay that per
year, but I don't have that.

There are other options for developers and educators and not sure
about the rest, I guess zoom could be approached by those
handling
conferences and asked for the event its only really 1 or so
weekends sometimes a couple weeks a year.

On 9/12/2020 8:13 am, Joseph Lee wrote:

Hi,

Personally, I beg to differ: as much as TeamTalk was a useful
platform, it is time to move away from a corner that we have
dug ourselves into. NVDACon held during a pandemic has
demonstrated a need to reach out to more audiences, and
personally, I think TeamTalk is no longer a suitable platform
for that. Accessibility and usability are major factors, but
if the community wants to broaden the appeal of NVDACon, it
should use a platform that allows more audience
participation.

The era of “audio only” conference is coming to a close.
Because the mainstream language is visual appeal, NVDACon
should strive to achieve a balance between mainstream appeal
and accessibility. More people will consume news about NVDA
through online media, and it is time for NVDACon to respond
to
it more effectively, especially now that the pandemic has
changed how people consume information (online presence will
be more pervasive, and so will efforts to create content that
appeals not only to a specific community, but also to wider
audiences). Put in another way: if NVDA is a global movement,
an event that serves as a gathering of this movement should
strive to reach global audiences, and one way is learning
from
mainstream strategies.

Cheers,

Joseph

*From:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io
<mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
<intl@NVDACon.groups.io> <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io> *On
Behalf Of *lauracornwell
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 8, 2020 11:00 AM
*To:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis:
success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed

Thanks to all for all help this year. Now as for moving to
zoomed I think that cost would be a big part of things we
could reach more people maybe but not having a plan for
weekend use is not helpful this is why I think that staying
with team talk would be better .









--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for
Windows, visit nvaccess.org <http://www.nvda-project.org>

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970)
(393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Derek Riemer
Improving the world one byte at a time! ⠠⠊⠍⠏⠗⠕⠧⠬ ⠮ ⠸⠺ ⠐⠕ ⠃⠽⠞⠑ ⠁⠞ ⠁
⠐⠞⠖
• Accessibility enthusiast.
• Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
• Open source enthusiast.
• Skier.

• Personal website: https://derekriemer.com





--
search for me on facebook, google+, orkut..
austinpinto.xaviers@gmail.com
follow me on twitter.
austinmpinto
contact me on skype.
austin.pinto3


Re: NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis: success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed

derek riemer
 

We have a plethora of blindness organizations we could ask to help out with the conference by borrowing their zoom conference that they use for other programs. If we approach them with empathy, compassion, and willingness to help support their programs financially, maybe we can work something out and avoid having to fund the whole thing ourselves.
Cheers,
Derek


On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 2:01 PM Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:

<grin>

Unfortunately while I am employed its not full time.

However when the next nvda con comes about, I guess there is no issues asking my bosses and see what they see.

The company is for accessibility, there is a good chance they will accept the conference yearly if necessary, not sure about rate but they are an accessibility company.

Of course it would be good if at that point whoever organised it asked me for it or went themselves.




On 10/12/2020 3:44 am, Iván Novegil via groups.io wrote:
I also know people that defends TeamTalk.
As you are employed and very independent, you can start collecting the money to fund Zoom or propose an alternative platform with similar features to TeamTalk. Then you would have to organize de conference, of course, earing people who says that NVDACon 2021 is a bad organized conference because they prefer TeamTalk.
Alternatively, you could develop a statistic on people who has problems with TeamTalk or a web streaming and what that problems are, so you can expose it instead of the thoughts of indeterminate users, who maybe not facing any problems with TeamTalk but they are so lazy as to get it, or who maybe dont exist.
Be reasonable. A thing is understanding your point, which for me is completely valid, and another agreeing with this type of rude comments.
Additionally, I dont think the openning forum is the right place to be heard regarding this. All of those who took part in platform debate could, for example, enjoy the conference and expose concerns through places such as this list.

Regards.

Iván Novegil Cancelas
Editor
ivan.novegil@...


NVDA.es Logo
Comunidad hispanohablante de NVDA | Proyecto NVDA.es
www.NVDA.es
@nvda_es


Usuario do NVDA en galego

***Esta mensaxe e/ou os seus adxuntos están dirixidos ao seu destinatario e poden conter información privilexiada ou confidencial. A utilización, copia ou divulgación dos mesmos por parte de alguén diferente do destinatario mencionado non están permitidas sen autorización. Se recibiu esta mensaxe por erro pregámoslle o comunique por esta mesma vía e a destrúa.***


El 9 dic 2020, a las 15:29, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> escribió:


Hello Robert,

And I leave you with my thoughts:

I did not create this thread, simply responded to it.

We are in agreement that my actions were not good.

I have heard from quite a number of users stating that they agree that the platform is a poor choice, and they wish for a change in platform.

If this list, the one where organizers reside, is a poor place to discuss this topic, then where in the world is a better one?

This is my last subject on this as it is abundantly clear that the organizers have decided to, instead of being responsive to the community at large, and instead of being representative of this community, instead of looking to actually be the global community conference of NVDA, it seems that, from the top down, NVDA Con is being known as a blindy event, using a piece of software that frankly only unemployed blind homebodies use, and instead of taking feedback on board, not just mine, but that of the community, this group has decided to bury its collective thumb up its butt and ignore the fact that a real problem exists, the identity of NVDA con. With the exception of, seemingly Joseph, who has seen the need for a platform change, others on this group seem to continue to make excuses for why it would be too hard to change, and why we need to remain entrenched where we stand.

With that, I will go back to my sideline role until next year, when I will try to, again, be heard, and have the community be heard. Good luck with your continuance of using an antiquated platform, and good luck advertising for, and attracting 30 users, plus another 20-30 who were there the entire time and were part of NVDA con planning. Good luck calling it an international conference representative of the community. As my donation is meaningless and not welcome, I will take it somewhere else, or maybe just use it to do something good for myself.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 5:27 AM Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@...> wrote:
I won't further participate in the discussion in this thread as it
seems not to be the right place nor order of procedure and the thread
name itself is either poor choice or some morbid joke that I don't
understand.
I find it personally rather silly to act up like in kindergarten only
to hit a point home. Despite the fact that offering to pay for the
first conference on the Zoom platform is doubtless very generous,
there is no way that we could probably accept that.
It would look like a lobbyist got his will through some sort of indirect bribe.
Not only that, it seems that users and moderators aim for multiple
gatherings in a smaller frame during the year and thus we wouldn't be
able to live on a single month donation.
It is an entirely different thing if we can guarantee a more or less
steady funding through a multitude of users.
We will certainly strive for that goal but it needs some setup first
(we have currently neither budget nor any bank or paypal account).
I beg you to be patient and to wait until the taskforce21 (evaluation
of platform possibilities and requirements) has done its work.

I leave you with a quote that seems to me exactly fitting the situation:
"We are in a time that is increasingly fractured. ...
if you look at the world right now. If you look at the news.
If you look at the news coverage. If you look at any controversy that we see:
Something has changed
and that is that it has become increasingly popular for your feelings
to matter, more than the facts.
And I think that is toxic to democracy because if there is one thing
we have to have:
to be able to have this discussion, to be able to learn, to live with
people that we disagree with.
We can't have a conversation about what we should do
We can't have a conversation about where we're going,
if we can't agree on where we are,
if we can't agree on what is happening.
Facts have to matter more than feelings."
Edward Snowden
(at around 10:30 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9yK1QndJSM )

Cheers
Robert


On 09/12/2020, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> One extra could be put in in this reguard.
>
> I do not use it because 1 I don't like the interface and 2, I just have
> enough channels I am on, but if people really want to do this, dischord
> is used by both blind and sighted.
>
> I guess whatsapp and facebook messenger for those that care could be
> other options.
>
> A discord server is free enough.
>
> I'd be against a total fan event, at least for the forums and chats.
>
> Now there isn't anything in the rules saying that we couldn't put
> lightning talks, keynotes, and development discussions to something like
> zoom if thats what people want.
>
> I have been on webinars that are like this.
>
> Now though, who are we serving here?
>
> With exception with the developments and where blindness and
> accessibility meet mainstream technologies and we do try to get into
> those where we can, a lot of this is a disabled event.
>
> And its quite short in any case.
>
> But if the community want to go with it go here and email them, and
> mention my name.
>
> https://accessadvisors.nz/
>
> This is the link to the company I work for as a tester of various things.
>
> They have been my main source of income this year and have assimilated
> most of the local companies, and charity access teams I have been.
>
> As a collective they are ok.
>
> These guys could previde some stuff, though there would be cash involved
> with various things so I do think that the con keep doing recordings for
> distribution.
>
> Then again, I am unsure on how zoom handles not for proffit organisations.
>
> Idealy though, you would want to allow various forums either to
> broadcast simultainiously or at least have options.
>
> If zoom is used there is options of phoning in.
>
> The other thing is, how big do we want this to go.
>
> The main event is the international con.
>
> I don't usually appear due to timezones and the like at any of these and
> there is no actual local event for me but thats fine.
>
> Now if you guys want to get big, then maybe I can have a crack at
> helping but I've never set my own event like this so it would be with
> someone else.
>
>
> You do realise though that if we go bigger then the team will need to be
> bigger.
>
> And if thats done, not everyone will be able to meet at the propper time
> so a lot of extras will have to be done by email which could be a
> problem depending what and where, etc.
>
> I don't spend all day in front of a workstation especially in the summer.
>
>
>
> On 9/12/2020 12:42 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Shaun brought up an important point: who is this event for? The answer
>> to this will have stunning implications for next year’s organizers:
>>
>>   * This is strictly an NVDA community event: there was a suggestion
>>     to create a regular meeting/workshop/gathering between NVDA users
>>     that goes beyond mailing lists. For that, we don’t need the scale
>>     of NVDACon (to be honest with you all).
>>   * This is a blindness specific event: well, there are other events
>>     like this where the NVDA community can come together to discuss
>>     the product.
>>   * NVDACon should target outsiders, including sighted individuals:
>>     this will necessitate moving TOWARD more prominent platforms.
>>
>> I think some of the reasons for getting ourselves into a corner like
>> this is due to old assumptions regarding the NVDACon, its character,
>> and scale. Earlier iterations of this event were successful when
>> considering that the event was limited to the NVDA community. This
>> changed in 2016 and 2017 when the gathering became larger and more
>> prominent, evidenced by more mentions in blindness presses and
>> presentation line-up. When considering the pandemic, this year was a
>> success, made more prominent as people tuned into events via a live
>> stream.
>>
>> The fact that we even had a live stream and willingness by people in
>> places such as Spain to translate the keynote for their language
>> communities means we have crossed a bridge of no return. Prior to
>> this, it was word of mouth that influenced NVDACon’s reputation. Of
>> course folks tuning in via TeamTalk had slightly better experiences as
>> they had live access to presenters and the conference in general. But
>> now the conference was streamed live and keynote was translated into
>> Spanish a few hours after the main event, and you can see why we
>> cannot go back to NvDACon of yesteryear. In short, folks will need to
>> think carefully about the target audience and the communities they are
>> serving and wish to reach out to.
>>
>> I’m sure some of us do not want NVDACon to become another fan meeting.
>> If NVDACon did become a fan meeting, held using a platform that the
>> community thinks is acceptable and accessible only by the community
>> and fans, then NVDACon will not be able to escape the corner it has
>> found itself in: a niche event. If next year’s organizers decide that
>> NVDACon should become more global and mainstream in terms of audience
>> outreach and creative content, then folks need to make strategic
>> decisions early and move the event in a direction that restores its
>> reputation as a source of useful information and filled with timely
>> analyses and critiques of NVDA and its community. Choosing a platform
>> is just one of the things to be decided based on an overall vision and
>> strategy; others include content that does contribute meaningful
>> information, willingness to listen to critics, and professional event
>> execution. NVDACon is not a fan meeting; it’s a professional gathering
>> of the community that must now consider its impact on outside audiences.
>>
>> Some important suggestions and recommendations forthcoming.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> *From:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>> *Shaun Everiss
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 8, 2020 2:57 PM
>> *To:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis: success,
>> moving to a different platform, Twitter feed
>>
>> I agree, also who are we pandering to.
>>
>> I know people stream in obs but to be honest, unless a sightling hosts
>> it, who will be able to do that sort of thing.
>>
>> I guess we could stream the conference on youtube and have pictures of
>> those speaking or something, but really this aint for a sighted audiance.
>>
>> Now, saying that, we are backed by google and others so if someone
>> wants to contribute that would be fine.
>>
>> Personally, while I can use zoom and yes its good for a job, as a
>> platform I woouldn't probably bother with it, I mean it works but
>> teamtalk is widely used by the blind and its still being developed.
>>
>> The other way we could do this is skype.
>>
>> Another thing we could try is microsoft teams but I have no idea if we
>> can use teams as personal users or if we need a business adress to
>> handle this.
>>
>> I don't think teams is for personal users but I could be wrong.
>>
>> We could use skype as another alternit but I don't think moderation is
>> a thing that can happen in skype.
>>
>> I guess we could use hangouts or its equivilant on the new google
>> platform since just about everyone has edge or chrome or something
>> like it.
>>
>> Thing is, is this for the blind or the sighted here.
>>
>> The blind will not want or need videos.
>>
>> If we are going to have pictures on a stream, that would work for the
>> talks, the keynote maybe and a few other things.
>>
>> However the forums, probably not so much.
>>
>> I guess we could have a zoom room for the lightning talks/webinars and
>> keynote and the teamtalk for general but its a bit bitsy.
>>
>> I have no idea what services would work on miranda, with the death of
>> aim, yahoo im, msn im, and the like as well as twitter pritty much,
>> the only mainstream stuff we have are zoom or teams.
>>
>> For the blind, we have ventrilo, teamtalk and teamspeak.
>>
>> Of course we could always have a chat app developed with the teamtalk
>> apis and that could work.
>>
>> We could always have a stereo room with the right codecs but who knows.
>>
>> We will always have issues.
>>
>> On 9/12/2020 9:57 am, Adriani Botez wrote:
>>
>>     I understand all complaints and arguments for and also against
>>     Team Talk. However, I am still struggling with users who think
>>     that moderating in Zoom is easier than in Team Talk. For an user
>>     it is easy to join, that’s true. But don’t forget that we are
>>     doing all this stuff voluntarily and I hope the community does not
>>     expect from us to become as professional as paid webinars or
>>     something else. If the expectation goes in that direction, I am
>>     sorry but at least speaking for myself I will not be available to
>>     moderate a 3 days conference in classroom mode at a high
>>     professional level and including all time zones of the world. This
>>     is simply too much for a voluntar work like we do.
>>
>>     If we will decide to go to Zoom, open forum format will still be
>>     available and this means that people will still be able to talk
>>     without raising hands, especially in long breaks. We simply do not
>>     have enough moderators to run a three days conference completely
>>     in classroom mode. So if the community does not respect simple
>>     rules like waiting for silence, don’t fall in each other’s words,
>>     being respectful etc. then we need to push harder from a
>>     moderator’s perspective and kick people from the conference much
>>     faster than we did in the past. Maybe we were too negligent on this.
>>
>>     To be honnest, I prefer to have a conference with less
>>     participants but qualitative input and useful content rather than
>>     one with a lot of participants and messy audio and lots of people
>>     who don’t respect simple rules. But this risk exists both in Team
>>     Talk and Zoom or any other platform when we are in an open format
>>     where every one can speak.
>>
>>     I think fund raising is not a problem, we have to think
>>     strategically in which direction we want to go.
>>
>>     Best
>>
>>     Adriani
>>
>>     *Von:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
>>     <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io> *Im
>>     Auftrag von *Shaun Everiss
>>     *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 8. Dezember 2020 21:38
>>     *An:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
>>     *Betreff:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis:
>>     success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed
>>
>>     Well joseph the only real alternitive is zoom.
>>
>>     Zoom will work but someone has to pay if you want to run with more
>>     than 3 people for 40 minutes.
>>
>>     So someone will have to pay to run zoom.
>>
>>     Teamtalk is fine for audio and its free.
>>
>>     Now I guess if we could get funding to hire a zoom room for the
>>     conference that would be different.
>>
>>     But someone would need to pay for and subscribe to zoom.
>>
>>     I could see nvaccess doing this, the problem,the only time a
>>     meeting is handled is for the conference.
>>
>>     The only other way would to join another group's zoom account, but
>>     that would mean someone else hosting it.
>>
>>     Looking on zoom, while I have not looked at the rooms prices, a
>>     meeting starts at 200 us and up and a webinar starts at 400 bucks
>>     a year for 100 people and up to 1000 for 500 people.
>>
>>     No one knows how many will attend a conference.
>>
>>     Teamtalk aparently can do video but yeah, who knows.
>>
>>     Unless there is a drive to donait for a subscription to zoom, then
>>     I don't know.
>>
>>     Bottem line, how many blind people will care to donate cash for a
>>     yearly event 1 time.
>>
>>     Sure if I had the 1000 bucks for 500 people, I'd pay that per
>>     year, but I don't have that.
>>
>>     There are other options for developers and educators and not sure
>>     about the rest, I guess zoom could be approached by those handling
>>     conferences and asked for the event its only really 1 or so
>>     weekends sometimes a couple weeks a year.
>>
>>     On 9/12/2020 8:13 am, Joseph Lee wrote:
>>
>>         Hi,
>>
>>         Personally, I beg to differ: as much as TeamTalk was a useful
>>         platform, it is time to move away from a corner that we have
>>         dug ourselves into. NVDACon held during a pandemic has
>>         demonstrated a need to reach out to more audiences, and
>>         personally, I think TeamTalk is no longer a suitable platform
>>         for that. Accessibility and usability are major factors, but
>>         if the community wants to broaden the appeal of NVDACon, it
>>         should use a platform that allows more audience participation.
>>
>>         The era of “audio only” conference is coming to a close.
>>         Because the mainstream language is visual appeal, NVDACon
>>         should strive to achieve a balance between mainstream appeal
>>         and accessibility. More people will consume news about NVDA
>>         through online media, and it is time for NVDACon to respond to
>>         it more effectively, especially now that the pandemic has
>>         changed how people consume information (online presence will
>>         be more pervasive, and so will efforts to create content that
>>         appeals not only to a specific community, but also to wider
>>         audiences). Put in another way: if NVDA is a global movement,
>>         an event that serves as a gathering of this movement should
>>         strive to reach global audiences, and one way is learning from
>>         mainstream strategies.
>>
>>         Cheers,
>>
>>         Joseph
>>
>>         *From:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
>>         <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io> *On
>>         Behalf Of *lauracornwell
>>         *Sent:* Tuesday, December 8, 2020 11:00 AM
>>         *To:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
>>         *Subject:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis:
>>         success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed
>>
>>         Thanks to all for all help this year. Now as for moving to
>>         zoomed I think that cost would be a big part of things we
>>         could reach more people maybe but  not having a plan for
>>         weekend use is not helpful this is why I think that staying
>>         with team talk would be better .
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>







--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!



--
Derek Riemer
Improving the world one byte at a time!        ⠠⠊⠍⠏⠗⠕⠧⠬ ⠮ ⠸⠺ ⠐⠕ ⠃⠽⠞⠑ ⠁⠞ ⠁ ⠐⠞⠖
•    Accessibility enthusiast.
•    Proud user of the NVDA screen reader.
•    Open source enthusiast.
•    Skier.

•    Personal website: https://derekriemer.com





Re: Admin mode activated: RE: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis: success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed

 

Hi Laura and others,

Let's not worry about promotion for now. What's more important is to help organizers finish unfinished business over this year's event, namely waiting for session recordings to go up. This is another reason for asking everyone to cool down so that our recording engineers can create a professional-level archive of NVDACon 2020 for our listening pleasure.

Cheers,

Joseph


Re: NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis: success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed

 

<grin>

Unfortunately while I am employed its not full time.

However when the next nvda con comes about, I guess there is no issues asking my bosses and see what they see.

The company is for accessibility, there is a good chance they will accept the conference yearly if necessary, not sure about rate but they are an accessibility company.

Of course it would be good if at that point whoever organised it asked me for it or went themselves.




On 10/12/2020 3:44 am, Iván Novegil via groups.io wrote:
I also know people that defends TeamTalk.
As you are employed and very independent, you can start collecting the money to fund Zoom or propose an alternative platform with similar features to TeamTalk. Then you would have to organize de conference, of course, earing people who says that NVDACon 2021 is a bad organized conference because they prefer TeamTalk.
Alternatively, you could develop a statistic on people who has problems with TeamTalk or a web streaming and what that problems are, so you can expose it instead of the thoughts of indeterminate users, who maybe not facing any problems with TeamTalk but they are so lazy as to get it, or who maybe dont exist.
Be reasonable. A thing is understanding your point, which for me is completely valid, and another agreeing with this type of rude comments.
Additionally, I dont think the openning forum is the right place to be heard regarding this. All of those who took part in platform debate could, for example, enjoy the conference and expose concerns through places such as this list.

Regards.

Iván Novegil Cancelas
Editor
ivan.novegil@...


NVDA.es Logo
Comunidad hispanohablante de NVDA | Proyecto NVDA.es
www.NVDA.es
@nvda_es


Usuario do NVDA en galego

***Esta mensaxe e/ou os seus adxuntos están dirixidos ao seu destinatario e poden conter información privilexiada ou confidencial. A utilización, copia ou divulgación dos mesmos por parte de alguén diferente do destinatario mencionado non están permitidas sen autorización. Se recibiu esta mensaxe por erro pregámoslle o comunique por esta mesma vía e a destrúa.***


El 9 dic 2020, a las 15:29, Nimer Jaber <nimerjaber1@...> escribió:


Hello Robert,

And I leave you with my thoughts:

I did not create this thread, simply responded to it.

We are in agreement that my actions were not good.

I have heard from quite a number of users stating that they agree that the platform is a poor choice, and they wish for a change in platform.

If this list, the one where organizers reside, is a poor place to discuss this topic, then where in the world is a better one?

This is my last subject on this as it is abundantly clear that the organizers have decided to, instead of being responsive to the community at large, and instead of being representative of this community, instead of looking to actually be the global community conference of NVDA, it seems that, from the top down, NVDA Con is being known as a blindy event, using a piece of software that frankly only unemployed blind homebodies use, and instead of taking feedback on board, not just mine, but that of the community, this group has decided to bury its collective thumb up its butt and ignore the fact that a real problem exists, the identity of NVDA con. With the exception of, seemingly Joseph, who has seen the need for a platform change, others on this group seem to continue to make excuses for why it would be too hard to change, and why we need to remain entrenched where we stand.

With that, I will go back to my sideline role until next year, when I will try to, again, be heard, and have the community be heard. Good luck with your continuance of using an antiquated platform, and good luck advertising for, and attracting 30 users, plus another 20-30 who were there the entire time and were part of NVDA con planning. Good luck calling it an international conference representative of the community. As my donation is meaningless and not welcome, I will take it somewhere else, or maybe just use it to do something good for myself.

On Wed, Dec 9, 2020 at 5:27 AM Robert Hänggi <aarjay.robert@...> wrote:
I won't further participate in the discussion in this thread as it
seems not to be the right place nor order of procedure and the thread
name itself is either poor choice or some morbid joke that I don't
understand.
I find it personally rather silly to act up like in kindergarten only
to hit a point home. Despite the fact that offering to pay for the
first conference on the Zoom platform is doubtless very generous,
there is no way that we could probably accept that.
It would look like a lobbyist got his will through some sort of indirect bribe.
Not only that, it seems that users and moderators aim for multiple
gatherings in a smaller frame during the year and thus we wouldn't be
able to live on a single month donation.
It is an entirely different thing if we can guarantee a more or less
steady funding through a multitude of users.
We will certainly strive for that goal but it needs some setup first
(we have currently neither budget nor any bank or paypal account).
I beg you to be patient and to wait until the taskforce21 (evaluation
of platform possibilities and requirements) has done its work.

I leave you with a quote that seems to me exactly fitting the situation:
"We are in a time that is increasingly fractured. ...
if you look at the world right now. If you look at the news.
If you look at the news coverage. If you look at any controversy that we see:
Something has changed
and that is that it has become increasingly popular for your feelings
to matter, more than the facts.
And I think that is toxic to democracy because if there is one thing
we have to have:
to be able to have this discussion, to be able to learn, to live with
people that we disagree with.
We can't have a conversation about what we should do
We can't have a conversation about where we're going,
if we can't agree on where we are,
if we can't agree on what is happening.
Facts have to matter more than feelings."
Edward Snowden
(at around 10:30 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9yK1QndJSM )

Cheers
Robert


On 09/12/2020, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...> wrote:
> One extra could be put in in this reguard.
>
> I do not use it because 1 I don't like the interface and 2, I just have
> enough channels I am on, but if people really want to do this, dischord
> is used by both blind and sighted.
>
> I guess whatsapp and facebook messenger for those that care could be
> other options.
>
> A discord server is free enough.
>
> I'd be against a total fan event, at least for the forums and chats.
>
> Now there isn't anything in the rules saying that we couldn't put
> lightning talks, keynotes, and development discussions to something like
> zoom if thats what people want.
>
> I have been on webinars that are like this.
>
> Now though, who are we serving here?
>
> With exception with the developments and where blindness and
> accessibility meet mainstream technologies and we do try to get into
> those where we can, a lot of this is a disabled event.
>
> And its quite short in any case.
>
> But if the community want to go with it go here and email them, and
> mention my name.
>
> https://accessadvisors.nz/
>
> This is the link to the company I work for as a tester of various things.
>
> They have been my main source of income this year and have assimilated
> most of the local companies, and charity access teams I have been.
>
> As a collective they are ok.
>
> These guys could previde some stuff, though there would be cash involved
> with various things so I do think that the con keep doing recordings for
> distribution.
>
> Then again, I am unsure on how zoom handles not for proffit organisations.
>
> Idealy though, you would want to allow various forums either to
> broadcast simultainiously or at least have options.
>
> If zoom is used there is options of phoning in.
>
> The other thing is, how big do we want this to go.
>
> The main event is the international con.
>
> I don't usually appear due to timezones and the like at any of these and
> there is no actual local event for me but thats fine.
>
> Now if you guys want to get big, then maybe I can have a crack at
> helping but I've never set my own event like this so it would be with
> someone else.
>
>
> You do realise though that if we go bigger then the team will need to be
> bigger.
>
> And if thats done, not everyone will be able to meet at the propper time
> so a lot of extras will have to be done by email which could be a
> problem depending what and where, etc.
>
> I don't spend all day in front of a workstation especially in the summer.
>
>
>
> On 9/12/2020 12:42 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:
>>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Shaun brought up an important point: who is this event for? The answer
>> to this will have stunning implications for next year’s organizers:
>>
>>   * This is strictly an NVDA community event: there was a suggestion
>>     to create a regular meeting/workshop/gathering between NVDA users
>>     that goes beyond mailing lists. For that, we don’t need the scale
>>     of NVDACon (to be honest with you all).
>>   * This is a blindness specific event: well, there are other events
>>     like this where the NVDA community can come together to discuss
>>     the product.
>>   * NVDACon should target outsiders, including sighted individuals:
>>     this will necessitate moving TOWARD more prominent platforms.
>>
>> I think some of the reasons for getting ourselves into a corner like
>> this is due to old assumptions regarding the NVDACon, its character,
>> and scale. Earlier iterations of this event were successful when
>> considering that the event was limited to the NVDA community. This
>> changed in 2016 and 2017 when the gathering became larger and more
>> prominent, evidenced by more mentions in blindness presses and
>> presentation line-up. When considering the pandemic, this year was a
>> success, made more prominent as people tuned into events via a live
>> stream.
>>
>> The fact that we even had a live stream and willingness by people in
>> places such as Spain to translate the keynote for their language
>> communities means we have crossed a bridge of no return. Prior to
>> this, it was word of mouth that influenced NVDACon’s reputation. Of
>> course folks tuning in via TeamTalk had slightly better experiences as
>> they had live access to presenters and the conference in general. But
>> now the conference was streamed live and keynote was translated into
>> Spanish a few hours after the main event, and you can see why we
>> cannot go back to NvDACon of yesteryear. In short, folks will need to
>> think carefully about the target audience and the communities they are
>> serving and wish to reach out to.
>>
>> I’m sure some of us do not want NVDACon to become another fan meeting.
>> If NVDACon did become a fan meeting, held using a platform that the
>> community thinks is acceptable and accessible only by the community
>> and fans, then NVDACon will not be able to escape the corner it has
>> found itself in: a niche event. If next year’s organizers decide that
>> NVDACon should become more global and mainstream in terms of audience
>> outreach and creative content, then folks need to make strategic
>> decisions early and move the event in a direction that restores its
>> reputation as a source of useful information and filled with timely
>> analyses and critiques of NVDA and its community. Choosing a platform
>> is just one of the things to be decided based on an overall vision and
>> strategy; others include content that does contribute meaningful
>> information, willingness to listen to critics, and professional event
>> execution. NVDACon is not a fan meeting; it’s a professional gathering
>> of the community that must now consider its impact on outside audiences.
>>
>> Some important suggestions and recommendations forthcoming.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Joseph
>>
>> *From:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> *On Behalf Of
>> *Shaun Everiss
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 8, 2020 2:57 PM
>> *To:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis: success,
>> moving to a different platform, Twitter feed
>>
>> I agree, also who are we pandering to.
>>
>> I know people stream in obs but to be honest, unless a sightling hosts
>> it, who will be able to do that sort of thing.
>>
>> I guess we could stream the conference on youtube and have pictures of
>> those speaking or something, but really this aint for a sighted audiance.
>>
>> Now, saying that, we are backed by google and others so if someone
>> wants to contribute that would be fine.
>>
>> Personally, while I can use zoom and yes its good for a job, as a
>> platform I woouldn't probably bother with it, I mean it works but
>> teamtalk is widely used by the blind and its still being developed.
>>
>> The other way we could do this is skype.
>>
>> Another thing we could try is microsoft teams but I have no idea if we
>> can use teams as personal users or if we need a business adress to
>> handle this.
>>
>> I don't think teams is for personal users but I could be wrong.
>>
>> We could use skype as another alternit but I don't think moderation is
>> a thing that can happen in skype.
>>
>> I guess we could use hangouts or its equivilant on the new google
>> platform since just about everyone has edge or chrome or something
>> like it.
>>
>> Thing is, is this for the blind or the sighted here.
>>
>> The blind will not want or need videos.
>>
>> If we are going to have pictures on a stream, that would work for the
>> talks, the keynote maybe and a few other things.
>>
>> However the forums, probably not so much.
>>
>> I guess we could have a zoom room for the lightning talks/webinars and
>> keynote and the teamtalk for general but its a bit bitsy.
>>
>> I have no idea what services would work on miranda, with the death of
>> aim, yahoo im, msn im, and the like as well as twitter pritty much,
>> the only mainstream stuff we have are zoom or teams.
>>
>> For the blind, we have ventrilo, teamtalk and teamspeak.
>>
>> Of course we could always have a chat app developed with the teamtalk
>> apis and that could work.
>>
>> We could always have a stereo room with the right codecs but who knows.
>>
>> We will always have issues.
>>
>> On 9/12/2020 9:57 am, Adriani Botez wrote:
>>
>>     I understand all complaints and arguments for and also against
>>     Team Talk. However, I am still struggling with users who think
>>     that moderating in Zoom is easier than in Team Talk. For an user
>>     it is easy to join, that’s true. But don’t forget that we are
>>     doing all this stuff voluntarily and I hope the community does not
>>     expect from us to become as professional as paid webinars or
>>     something else. If the expectation goes in that direction, I am
>>     sorry but at least speaking for myself I will not be available to
>>     moderate a 3 days conference in classroom mode at a high
>>     professional level and including all time zones of the world. This
>>     is simply too much for a voluntar work like we do.
>>
>>     If we will decide to go to Zoom, open forum format will still be
>>     available and this means that people will still be able to talk
>>     without raising hands, especially in long breaks. We simply do not
>>     have enough moderators to run a three days conference completely
>>     in classroom mode. So if the community does not respect simple
>>     rules like waiting for silence, don’t fall in each other’s words,
>>     being respectful etc. then we need to push harder from a
>>     moderator’s perspective and kick people from the conference much
>>     faster than we did in the past. Maybe we were too negligent on this.
>>
>>     To be honnest, I prefer to have a conference with less
>>     participants but qualitative input and useful content rather than
>>     one with a lot of participants and messy audio and lots of people
>>     who don’t respect simple rules. But this risk exists both in Team
>>     Talk and Zoom or any other platform when we are in an open format
>>     where every one can speak.
>>
>>     I think fund raising is not a problem, we have to think
>>     strategically in which direction we want to go.
>>
>>     Best
>>
>>     Adriani
>>
>>     *Von:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
>>     <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io> *Im
>>     Auftrag von *Shaun Everiss
>>     *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 8. Dezember 2020 21:38
>>     *An:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
>>     *Betreff:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis:
>>     success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed
>>
>>     Well joseph the only real alternitive is zoom.
>>
>>     Zoom will work but someone has to pay if you want to run with more
>>     than 3 people for 40 minutes.
>>
>>     So someone will have to pay to run zoom.
>>
>>     Teamtalk is fine for audio and its free.
>>
>>     Now I guess if we could get funding to hire a zoom room for the
>>     conference that would be different.
>>
>>     But someone would need to pay for and subscribe to zoom.
>>
>>     I could see nvaccess doing this, the problem,the only time a
>>     meeting is handled is for the conference.
>>
>>     The only other way would to join another group's zoom account, but
>>     that would mean someone else hosting it.
>>
>>     Looking on zoom, while I have not looked at the rooms prices, a
>>     meeting starts at 200 us and up and a webinar starts at 400 bucks
>>     a year for 100 people and up to 1000 for 500 people.
>>
>>     No one knows how many will attend a conference.
>>
>>     Teamtalk aparently can do video but yeah, who knows.
>>
>>     Unless there is a drive to donait for a subscription to zoom, then
>>     I don't know.
>>
>>     Bottem line, how many blind people will care to donate cash for a
>>     yearly event 1 time.
>>
>>     Sure if I had the 1000 bucks for 500 people, I'd pay that per
>>     year, but I don't have that.
>>
>>     There are other options for developers and educators and not sure
>>     about the rest, I guess zoom could be approached by those handling
>>     conferences and asked for the event its only really 1 or so
>>     weekends sometimes a couple weeks a year.
>>
>>     On 9/12/2020 8:13 am, Joseph Lee wrote:
>>
>>         Hi,
>>
>>         Personally, I beg to differ: as much as TeamTalk was a useful
>>         platform, it is time to move away from a corner that we have
>>         dug ourselves into. NVDACon held during a pandemic has
>>         demonstrated a need to reach out to more audiences, and
>>         personally, I think TeamTalk is no longer a suitable platform
>>         for that. Accessibility and usability are major factors, but
>>         if the community wants to broaden the appeal of NVDACon, it
>>         should use a platform that allows more audience participation.
>>
>>         The era of “audio only” conference is coming to a close.
>>         Because the mainstream language is visual appeal, NVDACon
>>         should strive to achieve a balance between mainstream appeal
>>         and accessibility. More people will consume news about NVDA
>>         through online media, and it is time for NVDACon to respond to
>>         it more effectively, especially now that the pandemic has
>>         changed how people consume information (online presence will
>>         be more pervasive, and so will efforts to create content that
>>         appeals not only to a specific community, but also to wider
>>         audiences). Put in another way: if NVDA is a global movement,
>>         an event that serves as a gathering of this movement should
>>         strive to reach global audiences, and one way is learning from
>>         mainstream strategies.
>>
>>         Cheers,
>>
>>         Joseph
>>
>>         *From:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
>>         <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io> *On
>>         Behalf Of *lauracornwell
>>         *Sent:* Tuesday, December 8, 2020 11:00 AM
>>         *To:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io <mailto:intl@NVDACon.groups.io>
>>         *Subject:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis:
>>         success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed
>>
>>         Thanks to all for all help this year. Now as for moving to
>>         zoomed I think that cost would be a big part of things we
>>         could reach more people maybe but  not having a plan for
>>         weekend use is not helpful this is why I think that staying
>>         with team talk would be better .
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>







--
Best,

Nimer Jaber

The message above is intended for the recipient to whom it was
addressed. If you believe that you are not the intended recipient,
please notify me via reply email and destroy all copies of this
correspondence. Action taken as a result of this email or its contents
by anyone other than the intended recipient(s) may result in civil or
criminal charges. I have checked this email and all corresponding
attachments for security threats. However, security of your machine is
up to you. Thanks.

Registered Linux User 529141.
http://counter.li.org/

To find out about a free, open-source, and versatile screen reader for Windows, visit nvaccess.org

You can follow @nimerjaber on Twitter for the latest technology news.

To contact me, you can reply to this email or you may call me at (970) (393-4481) and I will do my best to respond to you promptly.

Thank you, and have a great day!


Re: Admin mode activated: RE: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis: success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed

lauracornwell
 

Hey Joe, I am trying to decide how to better   promote the con, but with everything that happened this will make it hard for me to even try because what I am thinking is that you work hard on something like this and someone has to go and be rood after the fact that to me is know   way to treat something like this people who give of there time each and .every your

From: intl@NVDACon.groups.io <intl@NVDACon.groups.io> On Behalf Of Joseph Lee
Sent: Wednesday, December 9, 2020 11:47 AM
To: intl@NVDACon.groups.io
Subject: Admin mode activated: RE: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020 post-mortem analysis: success, moving to a different platform, Twitter feed

 

Hello NVDACon organizers, supporters, and the wider community,

I’m coming up on the stage not much as the founder, but as your forum administrator (for folks who thought such a thing didn’t exist, now you know).

First, I advise cooling down for a while. I can testify how hard it is to let go of what happened during early hours of NVDACon 2020 last weekend. It is okay to talk about recent memories when it is fresh in our minds if you choose to. But we need some time to recover and reflect, and that’s what I think people need desperately. Cooling down also helps folks research things so that when organizers meet again, folks would be ready to discuss issues in a more constructive way.

Second, let me state that analyses and critiques of NVDACon are perfectly acceptable on a public space like this. However, it would be grateful if you can speak not just from your experience, but provide data as well (statistics, reviews, comparisons, anecdotes, expert statements, etc.). Analyses without data amounts to speculation, and critiques without evidence collapses into complaints. Without hard (and hopefully solid) evidence, people cannot decide what to do next.

Third, reflection and encouragement are our top vaccines. We as the community must have capacity to reflect on lessons learned in the past. Not only that, but we as the community must also be willing to encourage people and give them strength for the present and the future.

We’re going through a difficult moment in history, not only of the world but NVDACon as well. I think the best gift the NVDA community can give to NVDACon and its organizers is encouragements and recognizing the good in bad moments. In addition, I think the best thing NVDACon organizers can do is thinking about and incorporating lessons learned in the past in future planning. Most importantly, even when we show strong opinions and willpower, let’s remind ourselves that reputation of the overall community and NVDACon matters, and that individual statements together with thoughtful collective reflection and action will influence how people (especially outsiders) view NVDACon in the future.

Feel free to contact me if you need advice, vent frustrations, feeling worried, or need somebody to talk to (doesn’t matter if you are an organizer or a participant) – I’m just an email or a tweet away.

Cheers,

Joseph

121 - 140 of 1100