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We have a plethora of blindness organizations we could ask to help out with the conference by borrowing their zoom conference that they use for other programs. If we approach them with empathy, compassion, and willingness to help support their programs financially, maybe we can work something out and avoid having to fund the whole thing ourselves.
Unfortunately while I am employed its not full time.
However when the next nvda con comes about, I guess there is no
issues asking my bosses and see what they see.
The company is for accessibility, there is a good chance they
will accept the conference yearly if necessary, not sure about
rate but they are an accessibility company.
Of course it would be good if at that point whoever organised it
asked me for it or went themselves.
On 10/12/2020 3:44 am, Iván Novegil via
know people that defends TeamTalk.
As you are employed and very independent, you can start
collecting the money to fund Zoom or propose an alternative
platform with similar features to TeamTalk. Then you would have
to organize de conference, of course, earing people who says
that NVDACon 2021 is a bad organized conference because they
Alternatively, you could develop a statistic on people who
has problems with TeamTalk or a web streaming and what that
problems are, so you can expose it instead of the thoughts of
indeterminate users, who maybe not facing any problems with
TeamTalk but they are so lazy as to get it, or who maybe dont
Be reasonable. A thing is understanding your point, which for
me is completely valid, and another agreeing with this type of
Additionally, I dont think the openning forum is the right
place to be heard regarding this. All of those who took part in
platform debate could, for example, enjoy the conference and
expose concerns through places such as this list.
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And I leave you with my thoughts:
I did not create this thread, simply responded to it.
We are in agreement that my actions were not good.
I have heard from quite a number of users stating
that they agree that the platform is a poor choice, and
they wish for a change in platform.
If this list, the one where organizers reside, is a
poor place to discuss this topic, then where in the
world is a better one?
This is my last subject on this as it is abundantly
clear that the organizers have decided to, instead of
being responsive to the community at large, and instead
of being representative of this community, instead of
looking to actually be the global community conference
of NVDA, it seems that, from the top down, NVDA Con is
being known as a blindy event, using a piece of software
that frankly only unemployed blind homebodies use, and
instead of taking feedback on board, not just mine, but
that of the community, this group has decided to bury
its collective thumb up its butt and ignore the fact
that a real problem exists, the identity of NVDA con.
With the exception of, seemingly Joseph, who has seen
the need for a platform change, others on this group
seem to continue to make excuses for why it would be too
hard to change, and why we need to remain
entrenched where we stand.
With that, I will go back to my sideline role until
next year, when I will try to, again, be heard, and have
the community be heard. Good luck with your continuance
of using an antiquated platform, and good luck
advertising for, and attracting 30 users, plus another
20-30 who were there the entire time and were part of
NVDA con planning. Good luck calling it an international
conference representative of the community. As my
donation is meaningless and not welcome, I will take it
somewhere else, or maybe just use it to do something
good for myself.
I won't further
participate in the discussion in this thread as it
seems not to be the right place nor order of procedure
and the thread
name itself is either poor choice or some morbid joke
that I don't
I find it personally rather silly to act up like in
to hit a point home. Despite the fact that offering to
pay for the
first conference on the Zoom platform is doubtless
there is no way that we could probably accept that.
It would look like a lobbyist got his will through
some sort of indirect bribe.
Not only that, it seems that users and moderators aim
gatherings in a smaller frame during the year and thus
we wouldn't be
able to live on a single month donation.
It is an entirely different thing if we can guarantee
a more or less
steady funding through a multitude of users.
We will certainly strive for that goal but it needs
some setup first
(we have currently neither budget nor any bank or
I beg you to be patient and to wait until the
of platform possibilities and requirements) has done
I leave you with a quote that seems to me exactly
fitting the situation:
"We are in a time that is increasingly fractured. ...
if you look at the world right now. If you look at the
If you look at the news coverage. If you look at any
controversy that we see:
Something has changed
and that is that it has become increasingly popular
for your feelings
to matter, more than the facts.
And I think that is toxic to democracy because if
there is one thing
we have to have:
to be able to have this discussion, to be able to
learn, to live with
people that we disagree with.
We can't have a conversation about what we should do
We can't have a conversation about where we're going,
if we can't agree on where we are,
if we can't agree on what is happening.
Facts have to matter more than feelings."
(at around 10:30 in https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9yK1QndJSM
On 09/12/2020, Shaun Everiss <sm.everiss@...>
> One extra could be put in in this reguard.
> I do not use it because 1 I don't like the
interface and 2, I just have
> enough channels I am on, but if people really
want to do this, dischord
> is used by both blind and sighted.
> I guess whatsapp and facebook messenger for those
that care could be
> other options.
> A discord server is free enough.
> I'd be against a total fan event, at least for
the forums and chats.
> Now there isn't anything in the rules saying that
we couldn't put
> lightning talks, keynotes, and development
discussions to something like
> zoom if thats what people want.
> I have been on webinars that are like this.
> Now though, who are we serving here?
> With exception with the developments and where
> accessibility meet mainstream technologies and we
do try to get into
> those where we can, a lot of this is a disabled
> And its quite short in any case.
> But if the community want to go with it go here
and email them, and
> mention my name.
> This is the link to the company I work for as a
tester of various things.
> They have been my main source of income this year
and have assimilated
> most of the local companies, and charity access
teams I have been.
> As a collective they are ok.
> These guys could previde some stuff, though there
would be cash involved
> with various things so I do think that the con
keep doing recordings for
> Then again, I am unsure on how zoom handles not
for proffit organisations.
> Idealy though, you would want to allow various
forums either to
> broadcast simultainiously or at least have
> If zoom is used there is options of phoning in.
> The other thing is, how big do we want this to
> The main event is the international con.
> I don't usually appear due to timezones and the
like at any of these and
> there is no actual local event for me but thats
> Now if you guys want to get big, then maybe I can
have a crack at
> helping but I've never set my own event like this
so it would be with
> someone else.
> You do realise though that if we go bigger then
the team will need to be
> And if thats done, not everyone will be able to
meet at the propper time
> so a lot of extras will have to be done by email
which could be a
> problem depending what and where, etc.
> I don't spend all day in front of a workstation
especially in the summer.
> On 9/12/2020 12:42 pm, Joseph Lee wrote:
>> Hi all,
>> Shaun brought up an important point: who is
this event for? The answer
>> to this will have stunning implications for
next year’s organizers:
>> * This is strictly an NVDA community event:
there was a suggestion
>> to create a regular
meeting/workshop/gathering between NVDA users
>> that goes beyond mailing lists. For that,
we don’t need the scale
>> of NVDACon (to be honest with you all).
>> * This is a blindness specific event: well,
there are other events
>> like this where the NVDA community can
come together to discuss
>> the product.
>> * NVDACon should target outsiders,
including sighted individuals:
>> this will necessitate moving TOWARD more
>> I think some of the reasons for getting
ourselves into a corner like
>> this is due to old assumptions regarding the
NVDACon, its character,
>> and scale. Earlier iterations of this event
were successful when
>> considering that the event was limited to the
NVDA community. This
>> changed in 2016 and 2017 when the gathering
became larger and more
>> prominent, evidenced by more mentions in
blindness presses and
>> presentation line-up. When considering the
pandemic, this year was a
>> success, made more prominent as people tuned
into events via a live
>> The fact that we even had a live stream and
willingness by people in
>> places such as Spain to translate the keynote
for their language
>> communities means we have crossed a bridge of
no return. Prior to
>> this, it was word of mouth that influenced
NVDACon’s reputation. Of
>> course folks tuning in via TeamTalk had
slightly better experiences as
>> they had live access to presenters and the
conference in general. But
>> now the conference was streamed live and
keynote was translated into
>> Spanish a few hours after the main event, and
you can see why we
>> cannot go back to NvDACon of yesteryear. In
short, folks will need to
>> think carefully about the target audience and
the communities they are
>> serving and wish to reach out to.
>> I’m sure some of us do not want NVDACon to
become another fan meeting.
>> If NVDACon did become a fan meeting, held
using a platform that the
>> community thinks is acceptable and accessible
only by the community
>> and fans, then NVDACon will not be able to
escape the corner it has
>> found itself in: a niche event. If next
year’s organizers decide that
>> NVDACon should become more global and
mainstream in terms of audience
>> outreach and creative content, then folks
need to make strategic
>> decisions early and move the event in a
direction that restores its
>> reputation as a source of useful information
and filled with timely
>> analyses and critiques of NVDA and its
community. Choosing a platform
>> is just one of the things to be decided based
on an overall vision and
>> strategy; others include content that does
>> information, willingness to listen to
critics, and professional event
>> execution. NVDACon is not a fan meeting; it’s
a professional gathering
>> of the community that must now consider its
impact on outside audiences.
>> Some important suggestions and
>> *From:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io
*On Behalf Of
>> *Shaun Everiss
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 8, 2020 2:57 PM
>> *To:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020
post-mortem analysis: success,
>> moving to a different platform, Twitter feed
>> I agree, also who are we pandering to.
>> I know people stream in obs but to be honest,
unless a sightling hosts
>> it, who will be able to do that sort of
>> I guess we could stream the conference on
youtube and have pictures of
>> those speaking or something, but really this
aint for a sighted audiance.
>> Now, saying that, we are backed by google and
others so if someone
>> wants to contribute that would be fine.
>> Personally, while I can use zoom and yes its
good for a job, as a
>> platform I woouldn't probably bother with it,
I mean it works but
>> teamtalk is widely used by the blind and its
still being developed.
>> The other way we could do this is skype.
>> Another thing we could try is microsoft teams
but I have no idea if we
>> can use teams as personal users or if we need
a business adress to
>> handle this.
>> I don't think teams is for personal users but
I could be wrong.
>> We could use skype as another alternit but I
don't think moderation is
>> a thing that can happen in skype.
>> I guess we could use hangouts or its
equivilant on the new google
>> platform since just about everyone has edge
or chrome or something
>> like it.
>> Thing is, is this for the blind or the
>> The blind will not want or need videos.
>> If we are going to have pictures on a stream,
that would work for the
>> talks, the keynote maybe and a few other
>> However the forums, probably not so much.
>> I guess we could have a zoom room for the
lightning talks/webinars and
>> keynote and the teamtalk for general but its
a bit bitsy.
>> I have no idea what services would work on
miranda, with the death of
>> aim, yahoo im, msn im, and the like as well
as twitter pritty much,
>> the only mainstream stuff we have are zoom or
>> For the blind, we have ventrilo, teamtalk and
>> Of course we could always have a chat app
developed with the teamtalk
>> apis and that could work.
>> We could always have a stereo room with the
right codecs but who knows.
>> We will always have issues.
>> On 9/12/2020 9:57 am, Adriani Botez wrote:
>> I understand all complaints and arguments
for and also against
>> Team Talk. However, I am still struggling
with users who think
>> that moderating in Zoom is easier than in
Team Talk. For an user
>> it is easy to join, that’s true. But
don’t forget that we are
>> doing all this stuff voluntarily and I
hope the community does not
>> expect from us to become as professional
as paid webinars or
>> something else. If the expectation goes
in that direction, I am
>> sorry but at least speaking for myself I
will not be available to
>> moderate a 3 days conference in classroom
mode at a high
>> professional level and including all time
zones of the world. This
>> is simply too much for a voluntar work
like we do.
>> If we will decide to go to Zoom, open
forum format will still be
>> available and this means that people will
still be able to talk
>> without raising hands, especially in long
breaks. We simply do not
>> have enough moderators to run a three
days conference completely
>> in classroom mode. So if the community
does not respect simple
>> rules like waiting for silence, don’t
fall in each other’s words,
>> being respectful etc. then we need to
push harder from a
>> moderator’s perspective and kick people
from the conference much
>> faster than we did in the past. Maybe we
were too negligent on this.
>> To be honnest, I prefer to have a
conference with less
>> participants but qualitative input and
useful content rather than
>> one with a lot of participants and messy
audio and lots of people
>> who don’t respect simple rules. But this
risk exists both in Team
>> Talk and Zoom or any other platform when
we are in an open format
>> where every one can speak.
>> I think fund raising is not a problem, we
have to think
>> strategically in which direction we want
>> *Von:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io
>> Auftrag von *Shaun Everiss
>> *Gesendet:* Dienstag, 8. Dezember 2020
>> *An:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io
>> *Betreff:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020
>> success, moving to a different platform,
>> Well joseph the only real alternitive is
>> Zoom will work but someone has to pay if
you want to run with more
>> than 3 people for 40 minutes.
>> So someone will have to pay to run zoom.
>> Teamtalk is fine for audio and its free.
>> Now I guess if we could get funding to
hire a zoom room for the
>> conference that would be different.
>> But someone would need to pay for and
subscribe to zoom.
>> I could see nvaccess doing this, the
problem,the only time a
>> meeting is handled is for the conference.
>> The only other way would to join another
group's zoom account, but
>> that would mean someone else hosting it.
>> Looking on zoom, while I have not looked
at the rooms prices, a
>> meeting starts at 200 us and up and a
webinar starts at 400 bucks
>> a year for 100 people and up to 1000 for
>> No one knows how many will attend a
>> Teamtalk aparently can do video but yeah,
>> Unless there is a drive to donait for a
subscription to zoom, then
>> I don't know.
>> Bottem line, how many blind people will
care to donate cash for a
>> yearly event 1 time.
>> Sure if I had the 1000 bucks for 500
people, I'd pay that per
>> year, but I don't have that.
>> There are other options for developers
and educators and not sure
>> about the rest, I guess zoom could be
approached by those handling
>> conferences and asked for the event its
only really 1 or so
>> weekends sometimes a couple weeks a year.
>> On 9/12/2020 8:13 am, Joseph Lee wrote:
>> Personally, I beg to differ: as much
as TeamTalk was a useful
>> platform, it is time to move away
from a corner that we have
>> dug ourselves into. NVDACon held
during a pandemic has
>> demonstrated a need to reach out to
more audiences, and
>> personally, I think TeamTalk is no
longer a suitable platform
>> for that. Accessibility and usability
are major factors, but
>> if the community wants to broaden the
appeal of NVDACon, it
>> should use a platform that allows
more audience participation.
>> The era of “audio only” conference is
coming to a close.
>> Because the mainstream language is
visual appeal, NVDACon
>> should strive to achieve a balance
between mainstream appeal
>> and accessibility. More people will
consume news about NVDA
>> through online media, and it is time
for NVDACon to respond to
>> it more effectively, especially now
that the pandemic has
>> changed how people consume
information (online presence will
>> be more pervasive, and so will
efforts to create content that
>> appeals not only to a specific
community, but also to wider
>> audiences). Put in another way: if
NVDA is a global movement,
>> an event that serves as a gathering
of this movement should
>> strive to reach global audiences, and
one way is learning from
>> mainstream strategies.
>> *From:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io
>> Behalf Of *lauracornwell
>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 8, 2020
>> *To:* intl@NVDACon.groups.io
>> *Subject:* Re: [NVDACon] NVDACon 2020
>> success, moving to a different
platform, Twitter feed
>> Thanks to all for all help this year.
Now as for moving to
>> zoomed I think that cost would be a
big part of things we
>> could reach more people maybe but
not having a plan for
>> weekend use is not helpful this is
why I think that staying
>> with team talk would be better .
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